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Dye" , Tim Cross , Jean Louis , Daryl Manning , rjhorn@alum.mit.edu, emacs-orgmode@gnu.org Subject: Re: [FEATURE REQUEST] Timezone support in org-mode datestamps and org-agenda In-Reply-To: <64179802-DA89-4822-82C6-CD52E67C3511@gmail.com> References: <63c66048.630a0220.427bf.a5f6@mx.google.com> <87r0vtiks0.fsf@localhost> <63c671c0.a70a0220.61aa5.56b8@mx.google.com> <87fsc88aq9.fsf@localhost> <63c7dd3d.170a0220.6b4d6.f84f@mx.google.com> <877cxk6oeu.fsf@localhost> <63c86454.170a0220.80970.652d@mx.google.com> <63c8f5a6.170a0220.ea8cf.7f96@mx.google.com> <63c9b654.170a0220.d82d2.4254@mx.google.com> <87mt6e86sr.fsf@tsdye.online> <63c9d976.620a0220.a7d40.113b@mx.google.com> <87tu0mjb24.fsf@tsdye.online> <63ca1283.170a0220.5bc81.0fdd@mx.google.com> <87pmb9k8oi.fsf@tsdye.online> <3035CDD5-41DD-4516-9E4E-9E0DF16BE2E0@gmail.com> <87lelo8c9r.fsf@localhost> <64179802-DA89-4822-82C6-CD52E67C3511@gmail.com> Date: Fri, 27 Jan 2023 13:00:10 +0000 Message-ID: <87cz708751.fsf@localhost> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Received-SPF: pass client-ip=185.67.36.66; envelope-from=yantar92@posteo.net; helo=mout02.posteo.de X-Spam_score_int: -43 X-Spam_score: -4.4 X-Spam_bar: ---- X-Spam_report: (-4.4 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H2=-0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: emacs-orgmode@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "General discussions about Org-mode." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-orgmode-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org Sender: emacs-orgmode-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org X-Migadu-Country: US X-Migadu-Flow: FLOW_IN ARC-Message-Signature: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=yhetil.org; s=key1; t=1674824428; h=from:from:sender:sender:reply-to:subject:subject:date:date: message-id:message-id:to:to:cc:cc:mime-version:mime-version: content-type:content-type: content-transfer-encoding:content-transfer-encoding: in-reply-to:in-reply-to:references:references:list-id:list-help: list-unsubscribe:list-subscribe:list-post:dkim-signature; bh=dyT3HR49RAeOqHxmbHjlttu1fdFFR34Nn3vS1qyPF4g=; b=QLK1oR7ClstyQUTChMCFokosKUhW+igkSdasEiCvzxaLFfLNAfOcT0L+LTxVR27t3Agqep 2v8/L5aGySaBKNn3RU3ao8FJxC33fOLAmUv/YWFCTNviBJVbXl0b8bsX+HE8xfCw4UTYLh MNZUfyx62XXAnfJYM4LcEwjfzpeaNdKSuNgoPjsoB8T/RQhSPJWmGvlwvW7Q9llfazIPQ6 11GexQF2MJr5Ec/nbE5VPTnTj1SOnhjxCG8pzaXuYLTBiBz2qWGK7/S4/l1sBK+z+2w4a8 NBuql5c6ZaO+O40oXScanx5d2rgSieFEDn/zL96gDSNV+E3eY0ykZlpqFujqjg== ARC-Authentication-Results: i=1; aspmx1.migadu.com; dkim=pass header.d=posteo.net header.s=2017 header.b=ptKpr+Kw; dmarc=pass (policy=none) header.from=posteo.net; spf=pass (aspmx1.migadu.com: domain of "emacs-orgmode-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org" designates 209.51.188.17 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom="emacs-orgmode-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org" ARC-Seal: i=1; s=key1; d=yhetil.org; t=1674824428; a=rsa-sha256; cv=none; b=tOx6znlCNTJB5+DSPLv6g8S7Iep0+g5nIgCkKaL/NQ9Y6gt0jJQVZ6n/P9V1P7yrYzOhmO BkP8Bx1VUMWdxiI+LcvCjnfRpy8jYskgxFkaEnZsEbxiHE6QDnQMNVffNvYGCMcROjRlmq Y44jNQ0kwAy3eMpuzN25GUtU8c04TRtRokSCsaGTJtnQuon7aqUao9bgMUAoOvwHofsmZU 2/uPMz2g2udY645l8cPt5Rcy+lSpK3NqBn0O1GvrzD7yAiy/t6QEATRhh9n3hQlupNCuqS zevfYFJtjgNGWZ4ptrDStVS6WaCn3QhFNmbcDQuH5V+eEGyRpFoTqNxtGskrLw== X-Spam-Score: -4.53 X-Migadu-Spam-Score: -4.53 Authentication-Results: aspmx1.migadu.com; dkim=pass header.d=posteo.net header.s=2017 header.b=ptKpr+Kw; dmarc=pass (policy=none) header.from=posteo.net; spf=pass (aspmx1.migadu.com: domain of "emacs-orgmode-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org" designates 209.51.188.17 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom="emacs-orgmode-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org" X-Migadu-Queue-Id: CD26C20322 X-Migadu-Scanner: scn1.migadu.com X-TUID: cIvh8RvTF79K Sterling Hooten writes: >> Design for human consumption is one of the reasons we do provide the >> redundant information like week day (I personally did find it extremely >> useful on multiple occasions) and do use spaces, deviating from ISO. The >> above ISO example is barely readable by humans. Another example from >> wiki page of ISO 8601 is even worse: R5/2008-03-01T13:00:00Z/P1Y2M10DT2H= 30M > > Certainly agree that the ISO format can be difficult for humans to read, = both from=20 > the lack of spaces and terse syntax. > > This isn=E2=80=99t (much) of a problem from a display format perspective = because we can parse=20 > the encoded format and present the user with a human readable version. So= the readability=20 > issue is more about the encoded format. But unlike the display format, wh= ich could follow=20 > whatever grammar or locale preference of the user, the encoded format mus= t be=20 > unambiguously parseable. If it=E2=80=99s possible to make the ISO format = more human readable=20 > while still preserving parseability this could be viable. You miss that Org should be readable outside Emacs and also outside text editor that understands Org specifically. Ideally, one should be able to read Org files in raw form, using notepad or simple cat command. There is no such thing as "encoding" vs. "display". The encoded format should be readable by default as well. Think of Org tables - would take a great care adding all the redundant spaces to align things nicely despite an alternative possible approach purely using fontification. Same for heading tags where the alignment is done by extra spaces. > I=E2=80=99m less arguing against the option for encoding things in a vari= ation of the ISO standard,=20 > but urging that Org support using an encoding of the ISO format in its ra= w state. I do not mind supporting raw ISO as an option. But not as the default repre= sentation. --=20 Ihor Radchenko // yantar92, Org mode contributor, Learn more about Org mode at . Support Org development at , or support my work at