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Dye" To: Jean Louis Cc: Max Nikulin , emacs-orgmode@gnu.org Subject: Re: [POLL] Proposed syntax for timestamps with time zone info (was: [FEATURE REQUEST] Timezone support in org-mode datestamps and org-agenda) Date: Tue, 14 Feb 2023 06:45:22 -1000 In-reply-to: Message-ID: <87cz6cchy8.fsf@tsdye.online> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed X-AntiAbuse: This header was added to track abuse, please include it with any abuse report X-AntiAbuse: Primary Hostname - box2035.bluehost.com X-AntiAbuse: Original Domain - gnu.org X-AntiAbuse: Originator/Caller UID/GID - [47 12] / [47 12] X-AntiAbuse: Sender Address Domain - tsdye.online X-BWhitelist: no X-Source-IP: 50.113.33.148 X-Source-L: No X-Exim-ID: 1pRySp-003Ztm-N8 X-Source: X-Source-Args: X-Source-Dir: X-Source-Sender: cpe-50-113-33-148.hawaii.res.rr.com (poto-foou.tsdye.online) [50.113.33.148]:40200 X-Source-Auth: tsd@tsdye.online X-Email-Count: 3 X-Source-Cap: dHNkeWVvbmw7dHNkeWVvbmw7Ym94MjAzNS5ibHVlaG9zdC5jb20= X-Local-Domain: yes Received-SPF: pass client-ip=69.89.25.95; envelope-from=tsd@tsdye.online; helo=gproxy1-pub.mail.unifiedlayer.com X-Spam_score_int: -16 X-Spam_score: -1.7 X-Spam_bar: - X-Spam_report: (-1.7 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, FROM_SUSPICIOUS_NTLD=0.365, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H2=-0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_PDS_OTHER_BAD_TLD=0.01 autolearn=no autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: emacs-orgmode@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "General discussions about Org-mode." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-orgmode-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org Sender: emacs-orgmode-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org X-Migadu-Country: US X-Migadu-Flow: FLOW_IN ARC-Message-Signature: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=yhetil.org; s=key1; t=1676393323; h=from:from:sender:sender:reply-to:subject:subject:date:date: message-id:message-id:to:to:cc:cc:mime-version:mime-version: content-type:content-type:in-reply-to:in-reply-to: references:references:list-id:list-help:list-unsubscribe: list-subscribe:list-post:dkim-signature; bh=eBdBM3UB+7LXcEi4Jj4kIMIjbXaXYbP0hze1lP8XNGU=; b=JIveCvIUq6NQnbsupENntX8uirfa00X+FIT6KLtqKwKDXUdbEH49dEl1lpVZGEqv7E6W65 i1at12bznK26SG+yBPt8VB4UA1WhnLTiK5pzAsjzRp6aXUsqyEFrxxz6+v2+Zg9rR9vL9h JFAlWY7TlTwRqaYv8OQ0uiYI1k7c/Kb2vMryPmvtT9OlGmOszJqdmrYf3wECyQ9DFh3npV R9+dgQ+M7teAzGEOT7Sxpl1zJ8R4Q7wVa9TYOmPOKXvrpX3rpOJcu8OYw2s4HYwX7EQLxf cbHLwo+Next/yIgoTVYjrmqqEZK/1OkunRKzSGPH+voylOIw8sXfSkCrLvws6A== ARC-Authentication-Results: i=1; aspmx1.migadu.com; dkim=fail ("headers rsa verify failed") header.d=tsdye.online header.s=default header.b=qmeQ7IoU; spf=pass (aspmx1.migadu.com: domain of "emacs-orgmode-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org" designates 209.51.188.17 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom="emacs-orgmode-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org"; dmarc=none ARC-Seal: i=1; s=key1; d=yhetil.org; t=1676393323; a=rsa-sha256; cv=none; b=is+gj83ULjOUMFkVxuQbNbdjwTUckqpM+8DvHNEKc1H5wgqHY5rQmU/Ca0+t7ZIvGKHjRh nigbYeWdwYsEV2AxocdMtQsviVQjdsH62KmowPR58xSr0U+p22w0tN79CZEhkCFkxUY7sL uoh+i8Tx5Jt1XZx6lc0s2RDfmDXgrEe1Srl+fdhmmgocMn8sONtyKODWKs7d7IFMj+AYze jmtue2or00eC8uWyLlWs6mVrBDzLURGrck+dXpB76itNLqf2TUpTK97iGU1blmZSG+JZm1 zV+qhBl9odc/sYtm9Sh9l6YKZkUe3eVN0EaRiup/ncFeYtFz5P6lPgyuQZkevw== Authentication-Results: aspmx1.migadu.com; dkim=fail ("headers rsa verify failed") header.d=tsdye.online header.s=default header.b=qmeQ7IoU; spf=pass (aspmx1.migadu.com: domain of "emacs-orgmode-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org" designates 209.51.188.17 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom="emacs-orgmode-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org"; dmarc=none X-Migadu-Scanner: scn1.migadu.com X-Spam-Score: -0.42 X-Migadu-Spam-Score: -0.42 X-Migadu-Queue-Id: 34E3B23CAA X-TUID: maQ8ujUAJeyD Jean Louis writes: > * Max Nikulin [2023-02-14 14:45]: >> On 14/02/2023 16:45, tomas@tuxteam.de wrote: >> > On Tue, Feb 14, 2023 at 10:41:38AM +0100, Heinz Tuechler >> > wrote: >> > > Jean Louis wrote/hat geschrieben on/am 14.02.2023 07:00: >> > > > Then just representation must be clear: @UTC is unclear >> > > > in those >> > > > cases, but @RELTOUTC would be clear. >> > > >> > > @RELTOUTC seems unfortunate, as it states only the obvious. >> > > If at all, >> > > it should be @AHEADUTC or @BEHINDUTC or some abbreviation >> > > of it, but as >> > > said above, it seems not necessary to me. >> > >> > That's what the "+" and "-" do, anyway. >> >> TZ=Etc/GMT-8 date '+%F %a %T %z %Z' >> 2023-02-14 Tue 19:37:01 +0800 +08 >> >> TZ=Etc/GMT+8 date '+%F %a %T %z %Z' >> 2023-02-14 Tue 03:38:24 -0800 -08 >> >> Notice sign in time zone identifier is opposite to time offset. >> However I am >> against RELTOUTC/AHEADUTC/BEHINDUTC. From my point of view >> +0800/-0800 is >> clear enough. >> >> P.S. Last +08/-08 are really time zone abbreviations, not >> offset, however >> unlike "BST" & Co. they are acceptable to specify offset >> unambiguously. > > That is different use case Max. > > For this use case I am in full agreement, that is what is used > anyway > worldwide. > > What Ihor proposed is time stamp like: > > 2023-02-14 Tue 12:00:00 +0800 @UTC > > Though I just say when we put "UTC" that means normally "UTC > time > zone" and such has no prefix that is positive or negative, can > be > zero. Sigh. UTC is not a time zone. All the best, Tom -- Thomas S. Dye https://tsdye.online/tsdye