From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mp2 ([2001:41d0:2:4a6f::]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits)) by ms11 with LMTPS id 2O5tAqQRmV60CQAA0tVLHw (envelope-from ) for ; Fri, 17 Apr 2020 02:17:08 +0000 Received: from aspmx1.migadu.com ([2001:41d0:2:4a6f::]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits)) by mp2 with LMTPS id uKMsLKcRmV5kSgAAB5/wlQ (envelope-from ) for ; Fri, 17 Apr 2020 02:17:11 +0000 Received: from lists.gnu.org (lists.gnu.org [209.51.188.17]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by aspmx1.migadu.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 9846E941C8A for ; Fri, 17 Apr 2020 02:17:07 +0000 (UTC) Received: from localhost ([::1]:41328 helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1jPGZ0-0006sD-K1 for larch@yhetil.org; Thu, 16 Apr 2020 22:17:06 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:38701) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1jPGYW-0006s4-PR for emacs-orgmode@gnu.org; Thu, 16 Apr 2020 22:16:37 -0400 Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1jPGYV-0002uR-Jd for emacs-orgmode@gnu.org; Thu, 16 Apr 2020 22:16:36 -0400 Received: from ciao.gmane.io ([159.69.161.202]:36560) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.0:RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:32) (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1jPGYV-0002py-Dn for emacs-orgmode@gnu.org; Thu, 16 Apr 2020 22:16:35 -0400 Received: from list by ciao.gmane.io with local (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1jPGYT-000CMp-98 for emacs-orgmode@gnu.org; Fri, 17 Apr 2020 04:16:33 +0200 X-Injected-Via-Gmane: http://gmane.org/ To: emacs-orgmode@gnu.org From: Adam Porter Subject: Policy proposal: Do not move existing functions/macros except in major version increments Date: Thu, 16 Apr 2020 21:16:24 -0500 Message-ID: <87blnqx3ev.fsf@alphapapa.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/26.3 (gnu/linux) X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.2.x-3.x [generic] [fuzzy] X-Received-From: 159.69.161.202 X-BeenThere: emacs-orgmode@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.23 Precedence: list List-Id: "General discussions about Org-mode." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-orgmode-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org Sender: "Emacs-orgmode" X-Scanner: scn0 X-Spam-Score: -0.61 Authentication-Results: aspmx1.migadu.com; dkim=none; dmarc=none; spf=pass (aspmx1.migadu.com: domain of emacs-orgmode-bounces@gnu.org designates 209.51.188.17 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=emacs-orgmode-bounces@gnu.org X-Scan-Result: default: False [-0.61 / 13.00]; GENERIC_REPUTATION(0.00)[-0.57410817214434]; R_SPF_ALLOW(-0.20)[+ip4:209.51.188.0/24:c]; MV_CASE(0.50)[]; TO_DN_NONE(0.00)[]; IP_REPUTATION_HAM(0.00)[asn: 22989(0.26), country: US(-0.01), ip: 209.51.188.17(-0.57)]; MX_GOOD(-0.50)[cached: eggs.gnu.org]; MAILLIST(-0.20)[mailman]; FORGED_RECIPIENTS_MAILLIST(0.00)[]; RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW(-0.10)[209.51.188.17:from]; RCVD_TLS_LAST(0.00)[]; R_DKIM_NA(0.00)[]; ASN(0.00)[asn:22989, ipnet:209.51.188.0/24, country:US]; MID_RHS_MATCH_FROM(0.00)[]; TAGGED_FROM(0.00)[larch=yhetil.org]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; RCVD_COUNT_FIVE(0.00)[6]; FROM_NEQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[adam@alphapapa.net,emacs-orgmode-bounces@gnu.org]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; URIBL_BLOCKED(0.00)[gnu.org:url]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[text/plain]; DMARC_NA(0.00)[alphapapa.net]; HAS_LIST_UNSUB(-0.01)[]; RCPT_COUNT_ONE(0.00)[1]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+]; FORGED_SENDER_MAILLIST(0.00)[] X-TUID: +S99uTL37gIY The relatively recent moving of org-get-outline-path to org-refile.el has caused breakage in Org itself in several places, e.g. https://lists.gnu.org/archive/html/emacs-orgmode/2020-04/msg00260.html https://lists.gnu.org/archive/html/emacs-orgmode/2020-04/msg00259.html https://lists.gnu.org/archive/html/emacs-orgmode/2020-04/msg00261.html Thankfully, Kyle has proposed a patch to revert that change. I hope it is merged. If it is not, when a new Org version is released with those changes (actually, sooner, because some users run the master branch), it will cause further breakage in out-of-tree packages and code in user configurations. I think changes like this should not be made without very careful consideration of the wider implications. These kinds of changes create a not-insubstantial burden on maintainers of Org-related packages to keep up with churn and maintain compatibility with multiple Org versions (which are used in the wild for years--I know of users still using Org 8, as well as Org 9 versions that are included with older Emacs versions (e.g. Emacs 26.3 is still stuck in Debian unstable, not migrating to testing, stable, or backports)). For my own packsges, I would expect to get multiple bug reports for several of my packages, which means that for each one, I then have to deal with the report, make a fix, test it, log it, push it, close the bug report...and for all that, nothing is gained. It adds up, and it's frustrating and demoralizing. Of course, I am not opposed, in principle, to refactoring and reorganization of this sort. Org is a huge project, and it certainly could benefit from these kinds of changes, in general. So, I propose that changes like these should not be made except in major version increments, e.g. this change should have been delayed until the release of Org 10.0. It would be helpful for users and package authors if they knew that changes like these would not be made until the next major version increment. If this is agreeable to the Org maintainers, I'd ask that it be documented in the project and announced in the NEWS file. Thanks, Adam