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[203.206.0.90]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id d2sm3628068pjx.42.2021.03.18.20.54.44 (version=TLS1_3 cipher=TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 bits=256/256); Thu, 18 Mar 2021 20:54:46 -0700 (PDT) References: <7a450ea3-b0e4-3322-04cd-fb5a5a555db8@gmx.com> <87o8fgwn9s.fsf@gmail.com> <9533dd41-ec81-43dd-8d25-a41300eb720c@gmx.com> <87czvw85ym.fsf@gmail.com> <87k0q3yj26.fsf@gmail.com> User-agent: mu4e 1.5.11; emacs 27.1.91 From: Tim Cross To: Timothy Subject: Re: Syntax Proposal: Multi-line Table Cells/Text Wrapping Date: Fri, 19 Mar 2021 14:50:07 +1100 In-reply-to: <87k0q3yj26.fsf@gmail.com> Message-ID: <87a6qz94sd.fsf@gmail.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Received-SPF: pass client-ip=2607:f8b0:4864:20::62d; envelope-from=theophilusx@gmail.com; helo=mail-pl1-x62d.google.com X-Spam_score_int: -20 X-Spam_score: -2.1 X-Spam_bar: -- X-Spam_report: (-2.1 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: emacs-orgmode@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.23 Precedence: list List-Id: "General discussions about Org-mode." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Cc: emacs-orgmode@gnu.org Errors-To: emacs-orgmode-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org Sender: "Emacs-orgmode" X-Migadu-Flow: FLOW_IN ARC-Message-Signature: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=yhetil.org; s=key1; t=1616126115; h=from:from:sender:sender:reply-to:subject:subject:date:date: message-id:message-id:to:to:cc:cc:mime-version:mime-version: content-type:content-type:in-reply-to:in-reply-to: references:references:list-id:list-help:list-unsubscribe: list-subscribe:list-post:dkim-signature; bh=1QLaFLcpBqR9DhkIDrh/dhq9eKa6sh+f0qQXALfuwAU=; b=PusF3GwUtlLrUUus4HYRGyOY5jU6YBGdmhF2hzRx7kRfdmhh6Or2y6qITqMxTP+DmsuEZN kHJEDmFyB3h0G5fL0aokfueRvfIdyYtfSmnc+5/4tbnPX/KqKuxFNtTjuRJf2x4nCWjjFG EEmsNkybQUPkTsIwglwSdxoNuMpyKX+aAWeVVHAAhN1CGft9v5Yub6QhCTQRndW7a6cytx PbRyjLWy4lawxgy5pj5pKCeFc4jGAOPEno9KFB7DoFjGSI0n2ZxRQPUeahygSI/L0bZ0lT zB6+5CUVF79Ut1zrBMirBL82YhkH7gNqRAFs/6agX/I1TviPxn8jfviUBvCn6g== ARC-Seal: i=1; s=key1; d=yhetil.org; t=1616126115; a=rsa-sha256; cv=none; b=ccvGSgm4M3WI1WBY77SbCSye1TxAlQh8iblSvSs6NivH1flI5+v4cesXOuqwUqd/lGGbDJ VF3pLXDv4ICytpN+MDLMj73IPeve4zh7gwI7CER2ssHyQUSNixWAgeJ0v+F/gsIJtdKQfU VJrRrxXjEsTOY1UpRLDHxnXK+M/7H5DWXYIhmN9NeuqhuBelzmh1ych64G0Jyw9RQ4Bq29 vFH8dErunnbxC3ybZsCVCtC+4Gzj2HXN0vHO3pUjhFa/rGKBlbCLVAZYykUgHoOJ5c3eTQ gHSU0Lqh73m4Em5s1L/93cOrYFpLfREOmX9UJ05OZLmjjcygEqP/iAR8vluKMw== ARC-Authentication-Results: i=1; aspmx1.migadu.com; dkim=pass header.d=gmail.com header.s=20161025 header.b=exDrFMuf; dmarc=pass (policy=none) header.from=gmail.com; spf=pass (aspmx1.migadu.com: domain of emacs-orgmode-bounces@gnu.org designates 209.51.188.17 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=emacs-orgmode-bounces@gnu.org X-Migadu-Spam-Score: -3.11 Authentication-Results: aspmx1.migadu.com; dkim=pass header.d=gmail.com header.s=20161025 header.b=exDrFMuf; dmarc=pass (policy=none) header.from=gmail.com; spf=pass (aspmx1.migadu.com: domain of emacs-orgmode-bounces@gnu.org designates 209.51.188.17 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=emacs-orgmode-bounces@gnu.org X-Migadu-Queue-Id: EB2D912BA0 X-Spam-Score: -3.11 X-Migadu-Scanner: scn0.migadu.com X-TUID: X2iLfPnzJ2rx Timothy writes: > Tim Cross writes: > >> In principal, it wold be great to be able to support multi-row columns. >> However, I'm not sure how easily this can actually be implemented in a >> consistent and maintainable manner. > > Mmmm, this of feels like something where you'll quickly learn how hard > it is/isn't when you try to implement it. > >> From watching these discussions in the past, I think the big stumbling >> block is how easily multi-row columns can be added and maintained in the >> various export formats. Some are easy, like HTML, but others are less >> so. In particular, I know from my many years working with Latex, >> multi-row columns are not straight-forward. There are lots of edge cases >> to deal with and it is hard to get a consistent result programatically. >> >> Proposals like this one can seem simple and straight-forward on the >> surface. However, implementation is another matter. All of the exporters >> will need to be updated to handle this new syntax and it will probably >> take a fair bit of work to handle it correctly in just plain org files >> (formatting, highlighting etc). > > Currently if you were to try this content with the proposed syntax, > content is just put in the top left cell of the group. This seems like a > reasonable fallback to me. Then for HTML we have colspan/rowspan, and > for LaTeX there's \multicolumn and with the multirow package \multirow. > > FWIW just formatting would need to be updated for Org files. > Highlighting is fine as is. > >> If this was something people were prepared to put the time into >> implementing, I think it must be done in a completely separate feature >> branch and would need to be fully tested (including all back end >> exporters) before it can be merged into the mainline branch. It would >> also be important to profile and ensure it does not have significant >> impact on performance. >> >> I am a little concerned about the expansion and addition of features in >> org mode when there seems to already be a challenge with respect to >> maintenance and bug fixing. Personally, I would prefer an org mode which >> is consistent and reliable over one with large numbers of features that >> is less stable and slower. > > I appreciate this concern, but I do think that the ability to have > multi-col/row cells is invaluable in many large tables, and so would be > a very good addition to Org. We can debate how easy or hard this is to implement indefinitely. What is needed is for someone to implement a working version which is consistent, reliable and provides expected results across all export environments. The devil is in the details and I suspect that once you start trying to implement the feature is when many of those challenges become clear. My view is 'go for it'. Just create a new feature branch and implment the functionality in that branch. We can then try using it and see where it works and where it doesn't. Once this is done, a call can be made as to whether it should be implemented in the main code base -- Tim Cross