From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mp11.migadu.com ([2001:41d0:2:bcc0::]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits)) by ms5.migadu.com with LMTPS id oCu/ELSXyWKgTQEAbAwnHQ (envelope-from ) for ; Sat, 09 Jul 2022 16:59:00 +0200 Received: from aspmx1.migadu.com ([2001:41d0:2:bcc0::]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits)) by mp11.migadu.com with LMTPS id eFayELSXyWKcXgAA9RJhRA (envelope-from ) for ; Sat, 09 Jul 2022 16:59:00 +0200 Received: from lists.gnu.org (lists.gnu.org [209.51.188.17]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by aspmx1.migadu.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id BF658388D7 for ; Sat, 9 Jul 2022 16:58:59 +0200 (CEST) Received: from localhost ([::1]:33378 helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1oABv7-0002yo-QT for larch@yhetil.org; Sat, 09 Jul 2022 10:58:57 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:33908) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1oABuY-0002yP-TQ for emacs-orgmode@gnu.org; Sat, 09 Jul 2022 10:58:25 -0400 Received: from mout01.posteo.de ([185.67.36.65]:48665) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1oABuW-0006QC-ME for emacs-orgmode@gnu.org; Sat, 09 Jul 2022 10:58:22 -0400 Received: from submission (posteo.de [185.67.36.169]) by mout01.posteo.de (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 348B624002A for ; Sat, 9 Jul 2022 16:58:17 +0200 (CEST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=posteo.net; s=2017; t=1657378697; bh=OWvYgu4ywYewEH/6M8QdF8nnOORBsNMxfrmDcpAhhUA=; h=From:To:Cc:Subject:Date:From; b=SCatlmEnijFfhJ0yQ8Ff5NEgOo1ghe+pxF9H1CahAf16kb31RpIx+7/ZR6EEfrYiT le/aMG4ukKbizr6sKLNysEbWGnbNy8Jxo2fU4PdnO0CpmWh5jLVDogIY6UXqMFrvFx ORHodJiOUx3kiXlpiBUVKcdmYxxFMdUmu8rP79D+z8r+6EOoSeBe3Ue5eZiB9oR2Yu 0wSYR1xX8GGSFJx+fO2XbQCtYT9/G55srYTzMmb09iJHjuJAdDR12z049VyUUDOlnB JTIM7g4cItRHSmb5juyN7WDy0G4tjMBnnrFLbjOrsLCdLqLNbHwZMHGfWw1CsxBkEV FXLjfVTgEGTMw== Received: from customer (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by submission (posteo.de) with ESMTPSA id 4LgCvD54kRz6tmM; Sat, 9 Jul 2022 16:58:16 +0200 (CEST) From: =?utf-8?Q?Juan_Manuel_Mac=C3=ADas?= To: Max Nikulin Cc: orgmode Subject: Re: LaTeX export: when is it more useful to use LuaTeX instead of pdfTeX? References: <87ilo7ztm3.fsf@posteo.net> <87ilo7tp78.fsf@tsdye.online> <87o7xy8t4g.fsf@posteo.net> Date: Sat, 09 Jul 2022 14:58:14 +0000 In-Reply-To: (Max Nikulin's message of "Sat, 9 Jul 2022 19:15:17 +0700") Message-ID: <87a69i8ha1.fsf@posteo.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Received-SPF: pass client-ip=185.67.36.65; envelope-from=maciaschain@posteo.net; helo=mout01.posteo.de X-Spam_score_int: -43 X-Spam_score: -4.4 X-Spam_bar: ---- X-Spam_report: (-4.4 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_SCC_BODY_TEXT_LINE=-0.01 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: emacs-orgmode@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "General discussions about Org-mode." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-orgmode-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org Sender: "Emacs-orgmode" X-Migadu-Flow: FLOW_IN X-Migadu-To: larch@yhetil.org X-Migadu-Country: US ARC-Message-Signature: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=yhetil.org; s=key1; t=1657378740; h=from:from:sender:sender:reply-to:subject:subject:date:date: message-id:message-id:to:to:cc:cc:mime-version:mime-version: content-type:content-type: content-transfer-encoding:content-transfer-encoding: in-reply-to:in-reply-to:references:references:list-id:list-help: list-unsubscribe:list-subscribe:list-post:dkim-signature; bh=OWvYgu4ywYewEH/6M8QdF8nnOORBsNMxfrmDcpAhhUA=; b=kFsBz75/m82PsvguOfXuEjU20S7Z44gDkep2Blz4QBcQxB9qHnllfokBDenxb6J1SB2xTS uUILMwhDqz9FTFNx+La2+zLwlALx1/DU1BAwK9JKf/UMuZygNrIKuY5h1Rh78/a8QIByf5 lBNkhnsvjVMV98NSP+PAW9b/4+gQDMlSIjybqlH8WeC9MU17R/EbH4Fh8wPWGi0iBBotD6 VsII4sk6YsRPoGtP5gVHSvUjKeS6Hh5YGcJYmVhzHPM01TgsIey9b5au2vYl1dTOr+cfA8 vVadma8Cyous27ZjSGqWZepnRdfISfPjF/3isW+xv6R7qCTsQEKKOGWPG+MHEg== ARC-Seal: i=1; s=key1; d=yhetil.org; t=1657378740; a=rsa-sha256; cv=none; b=l7/je3gU1uswfePjXDRavypB/BqR58p8Gm+DG/911sRb5bRT917NsPwSUCCGUfjZRfOwWp NBYZCBML8uTMv8n04zSgLCPiL847+pql7am89Fe6LMH8b9bSCXY0ogY7z3CoBE5iJsmXAT QJz38h5vwYJe3ZrWsu1WriMpninTmlouAth4ZNNs3Q3cQC2toxy03niNIKvofRlEtfWcAC yBCJQLQJOiaDBWLwr0mIY6GNSFM0fOsC/CX3vd1OaHiODiwcWEp/THQKmCY1xIg4He0SaJ A0fzPP9/iVMQn/MkLoeSKThY0JXbhqpVWRp/xYzvPfbmHuSDTPKqbBMuLew/Vg== ARC-Authentication-Results: i=1; aspmx1.migadu.com; dkim=pass header.d=posteo.net header.s=2017 header.b=SCatlmEn; dmarc=pass (policy=none) header.from=posteo.net; spf=pass (aspmx1.migadu.com: domain of "emacs-orgmode-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org" designates 209.51.188.17 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom="emacs-orgmode-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org" X-Migadu-Spam-Score: -8.45 Authentication-Results: aspmx1.migadu.com; dkim=pass header.d=posteo.net header.s=2017 header.b=SCatlmEn; dmarc=pass (policy=none) header.from=posteo.net; spf=pass (aspmx1.migadu.com: domain of "emacs-orgmode-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org" designates 209.51.188.17 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom="emacs-orgmode-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org" X-Migadu-Queue-Id: BF658388D7 X-Spam-Score: -8.45 X-Migadu-Scanner: scn0.migadu.com X-TUID: RyxEdF7xcztQ Max Nikulin writes: > LuaTeX uses Latin Modern > and it is not nearly Unicode Maxim, please look at this screenshots carefully: https://i.imgur.com/uMfheCL.png https://i.imgur.com/WwGybBA.png https://i.imgur.com/hpreFNQ.png Frankly, I don't know what Latin Modern you're referring to, and what you mean by saying that "it is not nearly unicode". The default LM font in LuaLaTeX and XeTeX is an otf and Unicode font. Which is not to say that it has all the glyphs to represent all possible characters. Because I guess you know the difference between glyph and character... Perhaps a font with a broader coverage could have been chosen by default for LuaLaTeX, but here the (LaTeX) historical reasons have prevailed. It's probably not the happiest choice, but LM is still a Unicode font nonetheless. And I insist: what you say about it being necessary to completely configure everything related to fonts in LuaTeX is not correct. It depends on the use case, and you can go (as I said in my previous email) from the simplest to the most complex configuration. On the other hand: I think that in the case of LuaTeX and XeTeX the choice and configuration of fonts should be on the LaTeX side and not Org's. Implementing that in Org would lead to a bunch of variables to cater for all possible cases. It might suffice to give some examples of basic use (like the ones I have put in the previous mail, and that will be enough for most users) and recommend free license fonts for different languages[1]. Maybe starting here: https://tug.org/FontCatalogue/opentypefonts.html But if the user needs more fine-tuning of fonts and languages, he/she will undoubtedly have to read the fontspec and babel manuals, depending on his needs, which can be very different from one user to another. [1] Although I see it as unnecessary. Fonts are not recommended when the output is odt... > With the following minimal example I got > blank space instead of non-latin characters. > \documentclass{article} > \begin{document} > Abc =E2=80=94 =CE=91=CE=BB=CF=86=CE=AC=CE=B2=CE=B7=CF=84=CE=BF =E2=80=94 = =D0=90=D0=B7=D0=B1=D1=83=D0=BA=D0=B0=E2=80=A6 > \end{document} \documentclass{article} % =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D \usepackage{fontspec} \setmainfont{FreeSerif} % =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D \begin{document} Abc =E2=80=94 =CE=91=CE=BB=CF=86=CE=AC=CE=B2=CE=B7=CF=84=CE=BF =E2=80=94 = =D0=90=D0=B7=D0=B1=D1=83=D0=BA=D0=B0=E2=80=A6 \end{document} \usepackage{fontspec}\setmainfont{FreeSerif} is the same as choosing the font in the libreoffice font menu. You have to keep in mind that LuaTeX and XeTeX are designed so that it is the user who decides which fonts to use and so that it's the user who has the freedom to manage those fonts as he wishes. Okay: they could have made a series of fallback fonts load by default to cover all glyphs, for users who don't want to mess with typography. But I think that this basic example that I have put is quite simple, and gives the user the freedom to choose his preferred font and not the one imposed by the system. And, at the end of the day, TeX is essentially a typographical tool, whether you like it or not. Of course, LaTeX can be used on autopilot because many scientific publications ask for articles in LaTeX (with very little room for maneuver on the part of the authors, since in the end a LaTeXpert will do the typesetting for the publication). But there are also users who want to create their own book layout from scratch, and use whatever font they want, in the same way as when exporting to html from org there are users who like to write their own css styles. LuaTeX and XeTeX offer the user that freedom, and it can be done very simply. I have used pdfLaTeX for a long, long time and I know very well how immensely laborious it was to install new type1 fonts, because I installed quite a few. Now, in LuaTeX any system font can be used in a simple and fast way, I think it is something that users should value more.