Re: Export Org with Org concept -- Re: Problems with C-c C-e file.org,

[Ihor Radchenko <yantar92@posteo.net>]

Jean Louis <bugs@gnu.support> writes:

>> > Apparently C-c C-e is capturing all events and not just keyboard
>> > events!
>
> That is not first complaint, right? I would say it is obvious that
> such interface is not user friendly. 

Yes and no. Some users do not like it. Some users prefer the existing
one. Conclusion: even if we implement something better, it should be
backwards compatible.

>> This is because we use `read-char-exclusive'.
>
> Don't use what is blocking Emacs. Apart from Org mode I have never
> seen a package that blocks Emacs that I cannot even inspect keys.

gnus, reftex, ediff.
(I do not mean that we should not improve Org in this regard)

>> Alternative menu designs have been discussed in
>> https://list.orgmode.org/orgmode/AM9PR09MB497743D21FA1C908392413F496D99@AM9PR09MB4977.eurprd09.prod.outlook.com/
>
> I did not find anything on that link.

There is code prototype down in the thread.
https://list.orgmode.org/orgmode/AM9PR09MB49770F57F33859770649C7C896AF9@AM9PR09MB4977.eurprd09.prod.outlook.com/

> Here is the concept of using Org similar buffers to export Org
> buffers:
>
> GNU Emacs package: rcd-org-export.el -- use Org to export Org:
> https://gnu.support/gnu-emacs/packages/GNU-Emacs-package-rcd-org-export-el-use-Org-to-export-Org-76272.html
>
> It is made for you, as concept, as I have already mentioned the
> concept before months. 
>
> In general, this is Org mode, so why not use Org mode to export Org
> mode?
>
> See the video demonstration:
>
> https://gnu.support/files/emacs/packages/rcd-org-export/2022-12-19-23:36:10.ogv

Thanks for the effort, but I'm afraid that it is not something we want in
Org core from maintenance perspective. Would be welcome as a third-party
package though.

Why:

1. Your package is introducing a new formatting for menus and new
   interaction paradigm. This is not backwards-compatible.
   If we add the package like yours into Org core, it will mean
   maintaining yet another piece of menu code in Org. Org is already
   huge and maintaining a separate menu package _in addition_ to all the
   existing staff is not a good idea.

2. We are moving towards removing menu-specific code from Org in general
   in favour of the existing menu frameworks. In particular, we plan to
   change Org menus to use transient. See
   https://orgmode.org/list/8c364693bf6856e60cdd3e8b63ab0c9284d16733.camel@heagren.com

   Note that transient allows menu buffer navigation (C-s)

3. Ideally, we should also adopt the existing menu layouts using
   transient. If not possible, we should consolidate the menu code into
   a separate simple library. Something just enough to replicate the
   existing functionality. With minimal maintenance. The thread I linked
   is one of such efforts.

-- 
Ihor Radchenko // yantar92,
Org mode contributor,
Learn more about Org mode at <https://orgmode.org/>.
Support Org development at <https://liberapay.com/org-mode>,
or support my work at <https://liberapay.com/yantar92>