From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mp2 ([2001:41d0:8:6d80::]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits)) by ms0.migadu.com with LMTPS id mPwCHUJFmGDjjQAAgWs5BA (envelope-from ) for ; Sun, 09 May 2021 22:25:38 +0200 Received: from aspmx1.migadu.com ([2001:41d0:8:6d80::]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits)) by mp2 with LMTPS id 0LegGEJFmGA4BQAAB5/wlQ (envelope-from ) for ; Sun, 09 May 2021 20:25:38 +0000 Received: from lists.gnu.org (lists.gnu.org [209.51.188.17]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by aspmx1.migadu.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id C57F4249ED for ; Sun, 9 May 2021 22:25:37 +0200 (CEST) Received: from localhost ([::1]:36346 helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1lfpzb-00077R-N6 for larch@yhetil.org; Sun, 09 May 2021 16:25:35 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:34046) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1lfpzG-00077I-Ny for emacs-orgmode@gnu.org; Sun, 09 May 2021 16:25:14 -0400 Received: from relay3-d.mail.gandi.net ([217.70.183.195]:36455) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1lfpzE-0003Yy-DH for emacs-orgmode@gnu.org; Sun, 09 May 2021 16:25:14 -0400 X-Originating-IP: 185.131.40.67 Received: from localhost (40-67.ipv4.commingeshautdebit.fr [185.131.40.67]) (Authenticated sender: admin@nicolasgoaziou.fr) by relay3-d.mail.gandi.net (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 1AB7060002; Sun, 9 May 2021 20:25:07 +0000 (UTC) From: Nicolas Goaziou To: "Bruce D'Arcus" Subject: Re: [wip-cite-new] New natbib processor References: <87eeel44gt.fsf@nicolasgoaziou.fr> <87wnsc2hag.fsf@nicolasgoaziou.fr> <87y2coz3l7.fsf@nicolasgoaziou.fr> Mail-Followup-To: "Bruce D'Arcus" , Org Mode List Date: Sun, 09 May 2021 22:25:06 +0200 In-Reply-To: (Bruce D'Arcus's message of "Sun, 9 May 2021 09:49:57 -0400") Message-ID: <878s4nzmcd.fsf@nicolasgoaziou.fr> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/27.2 (gnu/linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Received-SPF: pass client-ip=217.70.183.195; envelope-from=mail@nicolasgoaziou.fr; helo=relay3-d.mail.gandi.net X-Spam_score_int: -25 X-Spam_score: -2.6 X-Spam_bar: -- X-Spam_report: (-2.6 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H3=-0.01, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=-0.01, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: emacs-orgmode@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.23 Precedence: list List-Id: "General discussions about Org-mode." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Cc: Org Mode List Errors-To: emacs-orgmode-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org Sender: "Emacs-orgmode" X-Migadu-Flow: FLOW_IN ARC-Message-Signature: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=yhetil.org; s=key1; t=1620591938; h=from:from:sender:sender:reply-to:subject:subject:date:date: message-id:message-id:to:to:cc:cc:mime-version:mime-version: content-type:content-type:in-reply-to:in-reply-to: references:references:list-id:list-help:list-unsubscribe: list-subscribe:list-post; bh=EWUhYn+3TOpF/sVyq4jiQA3tzQ0dLIMsPlo1/5GUSIY=; b=nSTU7OPsKjWJHGGYoi1dAGU729LdN8oFU65evMAKob18/70Elc9rrejpSRpWRPm8iz/MlJ 7jhBT1GLWEBLYhG5kqGAaedWnZ7elsEVpSEQ7mpBA9xrkhWMfkMQBHvrmrCynn6T/VxlhJ RqQC49z7r7mUUIBqqEajEh2yYLrxRhyUtowrm/d7lpAKIIz+llVls2/P2LWvmcDWTZ9mbz juk2+XPpwF8KZDE2PzMqOwQm1CpDZvy6xqkKbJkWnRdP0D/w83JAm7CK2x4FIK9TEH2M3X gziSLOXDnv5ReJPqK83m+6uuBxNYWOYoZuK8hCOAKiVQsNxTqO/B8LHCswA2BQ== ARC-Seal: i=1; s=key1; d=yhetil.org; t=1620591938; a=rsa-sha256; cv=none; b=c2YmfCEr/pUGt2OCkfzqR/QasoZPEP4uEj5p4Zbt29iULhb9jNc84fV/x5SOgxcWaaNIV1 qRnTV9fCFjgXz761D7T1IeliDKOKD+6ONUfdRkWiB7k2glmmWNjS/SbqqZ5lmT+9MIf8kt GsdHo55lBAXE+Qr+1Xl0j9YQsJce9pNaxPVVTflz7dmifP2czSK7FKNSLvuh2FlFlVruHy oSmxQ/XLpatdwpPlcAjHK1kEuLGCFjRXuf7vcrVDIZlsnpby7AuiZbEmiBK3CIF/p18igL fGSaZp1b9cnCVexWnchBTxRgS/bZSaMQTtHDa4PpNDwMyqw6At1DdkhzFikyHQ== ARC-Authentication-Results: i=1; aspmx1.migadu.com; dkim=none; dmarc=none; spf=pass (aspmx1.migadu.com: domain of emacs-orgmode-bounces@gnu.org designates 209.51.188.17 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=emacs-orgmode-bounces@gnu.org X-Migadu-Spam-Score: -2.45 Authentication-Results: aspmx1.migadu.com; dkim=none; dmarc=none; spf=pass (aspmx1.migadu.com: domain of emacs-orgmode-bounces@gnu.org designates 209.51.188.17 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=emacs-orgmode-bounces@gnu.org X-Migadu-Queue-Id: C57F4249ED X-Spam-Score: -2.45 X-Migadu-Scanner: scn0.migadu.com X-TUID: QUANSQyXfvhV Hello, "Bruce D'Arcus" writes: > To bottom line it, seems the decision comes down to something like > these three choices: > > 1. no change; keep sub-styles as they are ATM > 2. change sub-styles to a simple string. So [cite/text/caps+full:...], > where sub-style is the string "caps+full"; short cut would be > something like [cite:/t/c+f:...] > 2. remove sub-styles entirely; just have things like > [cite/text+caps-full:...], where the style is "text+caps-full"; or > with shortcuts [cite/t+c-f:...] > > Any of them seem reasonable to me. > > Maybe 2 is the best balance of flexibility and simplicity? But there are two 2 ;) I think that sub-styles as currently implemented, i.e., per processor, are not useful. They could as well be replaced by a list of regular styles (e.g., "text-caps-full"). Completion is not really an issue either. We could require export-oriented citation processors to declare the styles they support through a dedicated keyword in `org-cite-register-processor'. Completions utilities, like the function you wrote, could then read from that list. The question you raise about compatibility between processors is interesting however. Without sub-styles, non-standard styles (roughly anything but default, text, author and year) would, as you noted, fallback to default style upon switching citation processors. E.g., "text-caps-full" would become default. With sub-styles, OTOH, fallback mechanism would be able to grab root style and try using it before dropping the ball to default. E.g., "text/caps-full" could gracefully degrade to "text", and, if not supported, default. Sub-styles buy us nicer switching between processors, indeed. But they come at a price, too. In particular, we need to re-define inheritance between styles defined in `org-cite-export-processor', "cite_export" keyword and the citation object. As I wrote earlier in this thread, there are multiple ways to deal with it, so a clear design is in order. Plain styles already exist. Sub-styles requires more work. Does the benefit outweigh it? If so, what do you suggest for the inheritance problem? Regards, -- Nicolas Goaziou