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[220.235.14.30]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id y9sm17202921pfa.197.2021.07.06.17.49.11 for (version=TLS1_3 cipher=TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 bits=256/256); Tue, 06 Jul 2021 17:49:12 -0700 (PDT) References: <8b7d39a2-dcc7-4134-9adc-08ed2477cc6b@gmail.com> User-agent: mu4e 1.5.13; emacs 28.0.50 From: Tim Cross To: emacs-orgmode@gnu.org Subject: Re: Emacs-orgmode Digest, Vol 185, Issue 7 Date: Wed, 07 Jul 2021 09:20:25 +1000 In-reply-to: <8b7d39a2-dcc7-4134-9adc-08ed2477cc6b@gmail.com> Message-ID: <878s2jlzi2.fsf@gmail.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Received-SPF: pass client-ip=2607:f8b0:4864:20::634; envelope-from=theophilusx@gmail.com; helo=mail-pl1-x634.google.com X-Spam_score_int: -20 X-Spam_score: -2.1 X-Spam_bar: -- X-Spam_report: (-2.1 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: emacs-orgmode@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.23 Precedence: list List-Id: "General discussions about Org-mode." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-orgmode-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org Sender: "Emacs-orgmode" X-Migadu-Flow: FLOW_IN ARC-Message-Signature: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=yhetil.org; s=key1; t=1625618985; h=from:from:sender:sender:reply-to:subject:subject:date:date: message-id:message-id:to:to:cc:mime-version:mime-version: content-type:content-type:in-reply-to:in-reply-to: references:references:list-id:list-help:list-unsubscribe: list-subscribe:list-post:dkim-signature; bh=r8Is7CDkrTJ/ddH86+qX5TsEGhFVat8zrYh8GHQVSkM=; b=M6QLNGDSoYik1R2fOaMfJRysKyZ50I4o2pvEWfvv4hH8MQKQ1N/t7zfbOyWvoy2noMPuAZ b/HtNEQqB8KtBxHRPDELwS6uSVh2BM/mukxbmsXCgVIRUyFUsPtkxFWRDrRCJsVmqkVkBI cXl0BP4jquUQHCni3HIrcNg95p3oE212yQtA0lMLuGAy4YaOYGJMBiimCMx1T1Q5v2lz2y dC1+hp14W6dBWpSmLh13L7hcRAbhtJ5IAsXmYg41A+TBIx3zASpnytGWfcxBE3Pwev71a+ bgKVIWx8Uwc4yd9qnIFgrmZrYBu98OEbgqWiibUWMKsUwrfPCaYhfdP0tA4Lgw== ARC-Seal: i=1; s=key1; d=yhetil.org; t=1625618985; a=rsa-sha256; cv=none; b=VcaULnoM7A9ken2eAs7ZA0QrWrqcZI+nveva6hkx/wE4Y58GM6QmsbBBVWa1cz52moWzSz Ct6IJpDixlCs1/uFaUhW4+C3GzUiD2eHANm70/v0M3d/DWuzTLh2yyz8wcnPyocf52ZY54 YJS0s429VsQ/WpExd/8kfL+L8w53sWE9Pb4FB33B1NbQIwRhhazky9qBMgQiPtmkSV0R+c ejQ6+5bmRZJvqLHAr8W28Kj+N7iUj+sJq+6/Bg25pclB/J51APNF8QJnt/59JMcEvJHcGn tnDbR/2V8orf8llBAhDNGGptKHrW7PVlZXlPUpVccI3P1tg3kd9k0BgryGnEKg== ARC-Authentication-Results: i=1; aspmx1.migadu.com; dkim=pass header.d=gmail.com header.s=20161025 header.b=bnESzzSH; dmarc=pass (policy=none) header.from=gmail.com; spf=pass (aspmx1.migadu.com: domain of emacs-orgmode-bounces@gnu.org designates 209.51.188.17 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=emacs-orgmode-bounces@gnu.org X-Migadu-Spam-Score: -3.11 Authentication-Results: aspmx1.migadu.com; dkim=pass header.d=gmail.com header.s=20161025 header.b=bnESzzSH; dmarc=pass (policy=none) header.from=gmail.com; spf=pass (aspmx1.migadu.com: domain of emacs-orgmode-bounces@gnu.org designates 209.51.188.17 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=emacs-orgmode-bounces@gnu.org X-Migadu-Queue-Id: 47857BC32 X-Spam-Score: -3.11 X-Migadu-Scanner: scn0.migadu.com X-TUID: ia3iXLtnnAER Ypo writes: > Hi > > Several things around my mind. Pick one if you like, and I will try to explain it better. > > - when using ediff, if there is an image near the text which has differences, it > works wrong. Like if the image wouldn't allow ediff to scroll and show the > difference. I just see the image, stationary, while jumping to the next > difference. I'm not sure how well ediff supports diffs containing things like images. The ediff program (which is not part of org-mode, only used by org mode) is designed for showing the differences between buffers of text and to help with merging such differences. I'm actually surprised ediff even displays images. > > - I have started to read Chassell's. Introduction... to Emacs Lisp. But my ideas > grow much much faster than my reading. I even feel I won't be able to implement > simple ideas in years. Example: I would like that every time "I see" a heading > with a special TODO state, this heading is expanded. Should I keep reading the > book to materialize this little idea or should I take different actions? > Definitely keep reading the book and spend some time writing some elisp code to do simple things. A basic understanding of Emacs lisp is extremely valuable. Although the functional style of lisp based languages can seem confusing at first, it is actually very simple. There is only a small amount of syntax to learn, but it can take a bit of time to start thinking in a 'functional' paradigm. Probably the hardest part to learn is all the terminology for things like point, mark, buffers, region and the wealth of functions provided by core elisp libraries. Make sure you spend time getting to understand the Emacs help system and the info manuals. This is critical and one of the key powers of Emacs - you can explore and find functions easily and get the documentation with just a few key strokes. With org mode, and with Emacs generally, often your best course of action is to be patient and avoid customising the system initially. Emacs and to some extent, org mode, is complex, often uses weird terms for things and incorporates new approaches and ways of doing things which can seem very odd at first. The normal response is to try and change things to be more familiar and make the experience more similar to what you are use to. This is often a mistake. Those who take the time to really experience the way both Emacs and org mode work often find there are significant benefits to the Emacs and org approaches over what they are use to. These differences are not always obvious initially and it is only once you have been using them for a while you recognise some of the more subtle benefits. I think it is good to realise that while we are all different, what we require in our editor is remarkably similar. Emacs is a program with a very large user base and which has been around for many decades. It is highly likely when you come up with an idea someone else has already had one which is very similar. I have lost count of the number of times I've thought "I wish emacs could do xxxx' only to later find that not only could it do it, the feature already exists and is even more refined and powerful than my original idea. The challenge with Emacs is often just finding that feature or recognising it. After using Emacs for nearly 30 years, I am still discovering stuff and refining my configuration. I frequently learn about things in forums, blog posts, videos and other sources which either give me ideas, help me refine my setup or introduce me to something new. The amount of custom elisp code I have has actually reduced over the years as I find existing better ways to do things than my horrible elisp hacking. A common error, one which I made myself, is to initially be really impressed by the possibilities org mode offers and immediately start customizing things to realise some of the great ideas it has generated. However, this is often a mistake. It can result in over engineering and workflows which are overly complex and to some extent self defeating. In many cases, you end up partially re-inventing wheels which already exist, but which perhaps look slightly different to how you conceived them (which makes them difficult to recognise). Often the differences are because org's approach is more refined or deals with other related issues you have not seen or yet identified. When starting with org mode, the best approach is to only do as little configuration as you need to get things working. Avoid defining new todo states, capture templates, adding custom hook functions etc until after you have used org mode for a time and have become familiar with what features it provides and its approach to organising information. Often, this will expose you to new ways of doing things which are actually better. You will also often find that org or Emacs already implements some feature you would like, but called something you did not expect or implemented in such a way it was not easily recognised at first. Once you are more familiar with how org works and understand the features it offers, you will often realise your original ideas and workflows were in many ways flawed and can be refined and improved using just available features. There will be things you will eventually want to customise and enhance to make your environment meet your needs, but wait until your more familiar with both org and Emacs and what it has to offer. By doing this, you will often find new and more efficient approaches and know how to combine existing features more efficiently. > - when I export to latex, I get an error and no document is produced. Sorry I > can't share here the error, since I am writing from the mobile, but it seems > related to xelatex. Buuut, if I take the .tex produced file and I open it with > an external latex editor, the document is compiled into a decent PDF. How could > orgmode generate a valid tex document but not to be able to produce its PDF? > Latex is a powerful, but somewhat complex, system. There are many different latex compilers offering slightly different feature sets. Org mode is configured by default with fairly sane defaults, but these are not necessarily ideal for all situations. For example, org uses the pdflatex compiler to generate PDF files from the *.tex sources generated by org (see the documentation for org-latex-pdf-process). You appear to be manually generating the documents using xelatex, which org does not use by default. Try compiling your *.tex document using pdflatex and you may get more informative errors that will help you get things configured. Look at the org manual and org wiki to get more information. Providing the exact error message is critically important if you want some useful assistance. Without the precise error message, we are largely in the dark and can only guess at what is causing your issue. In fact, when reporting an issue, you are far more likely to get help and a speedy resolution if you can provide a minimal recipie to reproduce your problem. This will often include a sample org file and a clear recipe to reproduce the issue. > - some more bugs I found, I should share from the PC. > It is more likely the issues you are running into are due to either missing dependencies (such as key latex packages used by org) or local configuration errors in your setup. Org has a very large user base and while we do see regular bug reports, these tend to be bugs related to quite advanced features. They tend to be bugs which only show up in less common edge cases or they are due to misconceptions held by the user who is expecting one thing and getting something different. For example, the fact you cannot generate PDF files when exporting an org document is highly unlikely to be a bug. Generating PDFs from org files is something done many times a day by hundreds (thousands?) of org users. If there were many bugs in this process, we would be seeing thousands of bug reports. Your report of not being able to generate PDF files is the first such report I've seen in quite some time and all the more recent ones I've seen have been due to configuration errors or missing dependencies. There have been recent reports relating to problems with very advanced features, but it is unlikely you are using any of these at this point. With programs like Emacs and org mode, which have a very large user base, your best off initially considering any errors you encounter to be due to a local issue in your setup. For people to provide assistance with your issues, we need to understand your configuration. To assist with this, org-mode provides the function 'org-submit-bug-report', which will create an email buffer with details about your org and emacs setup which will make it easier to try and reproduce your issue and provide assistance. If you use Emacs for your email, you should be able to update this buffer with specifics about the issue you have or copy and pase the contents of the buffer into your normal email program. See the section on reporting bugs in the org manual for full details. -- Tim Cross