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From: Ihor Radchenko <yantar92@posteo.net>
To: Zelphir Kaltstahl <zelphirkaltstahl@posteo.de>
Cc: Bruno Barbier <brubar.cs@gmail.com>,
	emacs-orgmode@gnu.org, Bastien <bzg@gnu.org>
Subject: Re: [BUG] Inconsistent global/local :var assignments in ob-* for lisps and non-lisps (was: org-babel guile source block bug in handling multiple values)
Date: Sat, 11 Mar 2023 09:58:21 +0000	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <878rg3y5he.fsf@localhost> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <21ea836d-8bdf-2d0d-8515-283209f2eb1f@posteo.de>

Zelphir Kaltstahl <zelphirkaltstahl@posteo.de> writes:

> The issue is not with defining via (define ...) inside a (let ...) in Guile. It 
> is about importing macros at the time, when the body of the (let ...) is already 
> evaluated, which is at a later phase than macro expansion. By wrapping inside a 
> (let ...) org has moved the import to a later phase, which causes the macro 
> (let-values ...) to not be expanded.

I see.
AFAIK, Elisp does not have this problem.

> As far as I know, (defun ...) and (defvar ...) are merely defining functions and 
> variables, not macros.

Same for defmacro in Elisp.

> My point is, that imports are usually global for sessions. But :var decided for 
> let-wrapping, moving them to a different place. Just like imports are usually 
> global, I would expect (define ...)s to be global in the session, unless I put 
> them inside a narrowed scope like a (let ...) myself. The org generated (let 
> ...) is invisible to the user and thus confusing, at least for GNU Guile.
> For other Schemes it probably all depends on how their phases of expansion and 
> evaluation work. I don't know enough about the Scheme standards, to tell, 
> whether Guile has the correct behavior here or whether there is a correct 
> behavior defined in the Scheme standards. Maybe someone more knowledgeable can 
> chime in to comment on that.

When saying Guile I mean scheme. Remember that I am now looking from a
more general perspective of other ob-* libraries.

My conclusion so far is that it is not safe in ob-scheme to use
let-binding. Other ob-* lisp implementations may be OK (at least,
ob-emacs-lisp is OK).

Now, the main question is whether it is safe to use `define' in all the
scheme implementations. If it is, would you be interested in turning
your personal fix into a patch for ob-scheme?

Ihor Radchenko // yantar92,
Org mode contributor,
Learn more about Org mode at <https://orgmode.org/>.
Support Org development at <https://liberapay.com/org-mode>,
or support my work at <https://liberapay.com/yantar92>

  reply	other threads:[~2023-03-11  9:58 UTC|newest]

Thread overview: 30+ messages / expand[flat|nested]  mbox.gz  Atom feed  top
2023-03-07 11:27 org-babel guile source block bug in handling multiple values Zelphir Kaltstahl
2023-03-07 14:36 ` Ihor Radchenko
2023-03-07 15:18   ` Zelphir Kaltstahl
2023-03-07 19:52     ` Bruno Barbier
2023-03-08  0:55       ` Zelphir Kaltstahl
2023-03-08 19:38         ` Bruno Barbier
2023-03-09  0:44           ` Zelphir Kaltstahl
2023-03-09 13:04             ` [BUG] Inconsistent global/local :var assignments in ob-* for lisps and non-lisps (was: org-babel guile source block bug in handling multiple values) Ihor Radchenko
2023-03-10 10:39               ` Zelphir Kaltstahl
2023-03-11  9:58                 ` Ihor Radchenko [this message]
2023-03-11 18:30                   ` Zelphir Kaltstahl
2023-03-12 11:33                     ` Ihor Radchenko
2023-03-19 13:50                   ` [PATCH] lisp/ob-scheme.el Zelphir Kaltstahl
2023-03-22 10:43                     ` Ihor Radchenko
2023-03-25 14:34                       ` Zelphir Kaltstahl
2023-03-26  9:32                         ` Ihor Radchenko
2023-04-25 12:28                         ` Ihor Radchenko
2023-04-29 11:08                           ` Zelphir Kaltstahl
2023-03-09 13:10             ` org-babel guile source block bug in handling multiple values Ihor Radchenko
2023-03-10 10:42               ` Zelphir Kaltstahl
2023-03-11 10:18                 ` Ihor Radchenko
2023-06-02 13:11                   ` Ihor Radchenko
2023-03-09 13:11             ` Ihor Radchenko
2023-03-09 14:21               ` Daniel Kraus
2023-03-10 11:57                 ` Ihor Radchenko
2023-03-10 10:45               ` Zelphir Kaltstahl
2023-03-08  1:13       ` Zelphir Kaltstahl
2023-03-08  8:55         ` Ihor Radchenko
2023-03-07 15:44 ` Max Nikulin
2023-03-07 21:41 ` Rudolf Adamkovič

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