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Sat, 30 Dec 2023 13:41:49 +0100 (CET) Received: from localhost ([::1] helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1rJYdx-0002bH-6y; Sat, 30 Dec 2023 07:40:49 -0500 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1rJYdt-0002ZU-Hg for emacs-orgmode@gnu.org; Sat, 30 Dec 2023 07:40:41 -0500 Received: from mout01.posteo.de ([185.67.36.65]) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1rJYdr-0007fu-0F for emacs-orgmode@gnu.org; Sat, 30 Dec 2023 07:40:41 -0500 Received: from submission (posteo.de [185.67.36.169]) by mout01.posteo.de (Postfix) with ESMTPS id F097324002A for ; Sat, 30 Dec 2023 13:40:36 +0100 (CET) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=posteo.net; s=2017; t=1703940037; bh=aGh6FuwbZL7SW0HKPBi8iXKceB6LhOn6T+qseuOaUoQ=; h=From:To:Cc:Subject:Date:Message-ID:MIME-Version:From; b=IY/4klwzSQx9fJIS0Edqg7Lx4TqeIsbhQKUEyMWQomY4+5nmurTeEY1kzQoxRAoqH oEw57onpg28+e6gg9BYnjvCi39FhiXP23cF4z37cKUQqo8n0QKFp/Ukz+xo7rZ89Lg /8IKDxWrQbjvrbhz39zCYc6eJ/wmoGbzaGhCOTs/zUDg8G3vBeN5wHlbVhpA7xZG8t fQ1TMFIe9Ns6Tw9YXUivKj1qIL8t+XPEgktiUSYPq3HZpH2igGuemvdGeHk56RHdh6 0WtEQSdayU8RWa6s/yZf0QbjkYFvBy6eFvGDMNNYqAhqsvePSzj3G/c7NjweaTd+u8 cXEBSdmiyI4gw== Received: from customer (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by submission (posteo.de) with ESMTPSA id 4T2MKc18qlz9rxD; Sat, 30 Dec 2023 13:40:35 +0100 (CET) From: Ihor Radchenko To: rms@gnu.org, Bastien Cc: Hanno Perrey , emacs-devel@gnu.org, emacs-orgmode@gnu.org Subject: [DISCUSSION] org-capture.el vs remember.el (was: [ELPA] New package: jami-bot and org-jami-bot) In-Reply-To: References: <875y0i7e43.fsf@hoowl.se> Date: Sat, 30 Dec 2023 12:43:49 +0000 Message-ID: <878r5bc12y.fsf@localhost> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Received-SPF: pass client-ip=185.67.36.65; envelope-from=yantar92@posteo.net; helo=mout01.posteo.de X-Spam_score_int: -43 X-Spam_score: -4.4 X-Spam_bar: ---- X-Spam_report: (-4.4 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H5=0.001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_SCC_BODY_TEXT_LINE=-0.01 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: emacs-orgmode@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "General discussions about Org-mode." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-orgmode-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org Sender: emacs-orgmode-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org X-Migadu-Country: US X-Migadu-Flow: FLOW_IN X-Migadu-Spam-Score: -9.48 X-Spam-Score: -9.48 X-Migadu-Queue-Id: 61EBC6B104 X-Migadu-Scanner: mx10.migadu.com X-TUID: KOCx/j621JcH Recent emacs-devel discussion brought up some concerns about org-capture being very specific to Org mode and not integrated with the rest of Emacs. However, org-capture was once built on top of the built-in remember.el before it was refactored into independent code by Carsten: https://list.orgmode.org/orgmode/C46F10DC-DE51-43D4-AFFE-F71E440D1E1F@gmail.com/ The refactoring de-coupled what used to be org-remember.el into completely rewritten org-capture.el that added important features that could not be implemented within remember.el framework: 1. org-capture arranges writing the text to remember directly into the target location where it is to be stored. This addressed an important problem of remember.el - remember.el always uses temporary buffer for user input and does not save it until remember-finalize is executed explicitly. A number of users sometimes forgot to call remember-finalize, leading to annoying data losses. 2. remember.el only allows a single text input at a time. org-capture makes it possible for users to write multiple notes in parallel. I am wondering if it would be possible to have the above two key features supported by remember.el. Then, org-capture.el could go back to re-using remember.el infrastructure and thus reduce code duplication. Richard Stallman writes: > > org-jami-bot builds upon jami-bot and extends it with Org mode capture > > functionality for text messages and images. > > This feature will be useful. I am not concretely sure what "capture > functionality" includes, but if it provides higher-level communication > between Emacs and Jami, that is a good thing. > > At the same time, it seems to be implemented in a way that imposes an > evitable restriction -- requiring use of Org mode. > > Dependence of various features on Org mode causes problems in two ways: > > * It makes those features hard to use for those that don't use Org mode. > > * It adds the need to learn Org mode to the need to learn Emacs itself. > > Therefore, new features which make sense indepdently of Org mode > should be usable without Org mode. -- Ihor Radchenko // yantar92, Org mode contributor, Learn more about Org mode at . Support Org development at , or support my work at