[bug] Inline tasks are exported, even with noexport tag

[bug] Inline tasks are exported, even with noexport tag

[Sebastien Vauban]

Hello,

The following ECM fails on 2 fronts:

- the `noexport' tag on the inline task is not respected;

- the exported contents (because of the previous item) is not compilable in
  LaTeX (maybe the default in `org-latex-inlinetask' is not generic enough for
  handling such a content, or there are restrictions on the contents of inline
  tasks which I did not respect?)

Best regards,
Seb

--8<---------------cut here---------------start------------->8---
#+TITLE:     ECM Noexport not respected, and failure to export
#+AUTHOR:    Seb Vauban
#+Time-stamp: <2013-02-27 Wed 15:07>
#+LANGUAGE:  en
#+OPTIONS:   H:3 num:t toc:t ^:{}

* Private headline                                                  :noexport:

You don't see this. Good!

* Public headline

Normal body text...

*************** This error report should be private                 :noexport:
When pushing Submit, I got the error:

#+begin_example
[ServletException in:/WEB-INF/sharedfiles/pdef/split/action_n235.jsp] No
getter method available for property submitinfo.xor_n249_n250 for bean under
name ViewCaseForm'
#+end_example

Maybe due to UTF-8 in the file =C:\WebClient\src\SubmitInfo.java=.
See as well [[file:WebClient/src/tools/pdef/makefile][file:WebClient/src/tools/pdef/makefile]].
*************** END

Follow-up to normal body text...
--8<---------------cut here---------------end--------------->8---

-- 
Sebastien Vauban

Re: [bug] Inline tasks are exported, even with noexport tag

[Nicolas Goaziou]

Hello,

"Sebastien Vauban"
<wxhgmqzgwmuf-geNee64TY+gS+FvcfC7Uqw@public.gmane.org> writes:

> The following ECM fails on 2 fronts:
>
> - the `noexport' tag on the inline task is not respected;

Should it? Inlinetasks are not headlines, even though they use
a somewhat similar syntax. :noexport: tag applies to trees. Inlinetasks
do not define a tree.

More generally, `org-export-with-tasks', `org-export-select-tags' and
`org-export-exclude-tags' only apply on headlines.

On the other hand, `org-export-with-inlinetasks' allows you to ignore
inlinetasks completely during export. For conditional export, you may
also want to look at drawers, which can be included/excluded by their
name.

> - the exported contents (because of the previous item) is not compilable in
>   LaTeX (maybe the default in `org-latex-inlinetask' is not generic enough for
>   handling such a content, or there are restrictions on the contents of inline
>   tasks which I did not respect?)

From the Org POV, you can put anything in an inlinetask excepted another
inlinetask and a headline.

`latex' backend puts contents within \fbox and a \minipage environments.
It's possible that verbatim is not allowed within one of them, I didn't
check. It's quite difficult to come up with something visually different
and yet general enough. You can also use
`org-latex-format-inlinetask-function'.


Regards,

-- 
Nicolas Goaziou

Re: [bug] Inline tasks are exported, even with noexport tag

[Sebastien Vauban]

Hello Nicolas,

Nicolas Goaziou wrote:
> "Sebastien Vauban" writes:
>
>> The following ECM fails on 2 fronts:
>>
>> - the `noexport' tag on the inline task is not respected;
>
> Should it?

Well, it previously did. And that's pretty interesting: you can put "private"
inline blocks, and have them exported or not, depending of the target of your
document.

> Inlinetasks are not headlines, even though they use a somewhat similar
> syntax. :noexport: tag applies to trees. Inlinetasks do not define a tree.

For me, inline tasks were (up to now) exactly like trees but with an end, and
their contents was inline in the current entry, without disrupting the outline
structure.

We could use them to mirror "note" or "warning" blocks or paragraphs we find
in all books, and that in a portable manner (regarding the multi-backends).

As (I understood that) they were like headlines, we could anything like for
real headlines:

- adding tags
- adding TODO keywords
- adding drawers
- adding clocking information
- etc.

Is this not right anymore?

> More generally, `org-export-with-tasks', `org-export-select-tags' and
> `org-export-exclude-tags' only apply on headlines.

I understand there is a "yes for all" / "no for all" switch, but the ability
to mark some of the inline blocks NOT for export is a functionality which,
IMHO, we should avoid to drop.

> On the other hand, `org-export-with-inlinetasks' allows you to ignore
> inlinetasks completely during export. For conditional export, you may
> also want to look at drawers, which can be included/excluded by their
> name.

If inline tasks can or should be replaced by drawers, what is their use, then?
What remains as their fundamental reason of living?

I'd like that to be clarified for my own understanding.

>> - the exported contents (because of the previous item) is not compilable in
>>   LaTeX (maybe the default in `org-latex-inlinetask' is not generic enough for
>>   handling such a content, or there are restrictions on the contents of inline
>>   tasks which I did not respect?)
>
> From the Org POV, you can put anything in an inlinetask excepted another
> inlinetask and a headline.
>
> `latex' backend puts contents within \fbox and a \minipage environments.
> It's possible that verbatim is not allowed within one of them, I didn't
> check. It's quite difficult to come up with something visually different
> and yet general enough. You can also use
> `org-latex-format-inlinetask-function'.

I'll give a look, thanks.

Best regards,
  Seb

-- 
Sebastien Vauban

Re: [bug] Inline tasks are exported, even with noexport tag

[Nicolas Goaziou]

"Sebastien Vauban"
<wxhgmqzgwmuf-geNee64TY+gS+FvcfC7Uqw@public.gmane.org> writes:

> Nicolas Goaziou wrote:
>> "Sebastien Vauban" writes:
>>
>>> The following ECM fails on 2 fronts:
>>>
>>> - the `noexport' tag on the inline task is not respected;
>>
>> Should it?
>
> Well, it previously did.

Yes, but that is unrelated to my question.

> And that's pretty interesting: you can put "private" inline blocks,
> and have them exported or not, depending of the target of your
> document.

So can drawers.

>> Inlinetasks are not headlines, even though they use a somewhat similar
>> syntax. :noexport: tag applies to trees. Inlinetasks do not define a tree.
>
> For me, inline tasks were (up to now) exactly like trees but with an end, and
> their contents was inline in the current entry, without disrupting the outline
> structure.

Inlinetasks cannot have children, which seriously limits their "tree"
shape. They are more of a pile of leaves.

> We could use them to mirror "note" or "warning" blocks or paragraphs
> we find in all books, and that in a portable manner (regarding the
> multi-backends).

Again, my question was not about the usefulness of inlinetasks.

> As (I understood that) they were like headlines, we could anything like for
> real headlines:
>
> - adding tags
> - adding TODO keywords
> - adding drawers
> - adding clocking information
> - etc.
>
> Is this not right anymore?

It is right that inlinetasks can have tags, TODO keywords, properties
drawers and clocking information, like headlines. They also appear in
the agenda like headlines.

But that doesn't make them exactly headlines. For example, they can be
included in plain lists, whereas headlines cannot.

Headlines and inlinetasks share the looks, not the structure.

So my question is about /export/ of inlinetasks. Since they are not
headlines, where is drawn the line between them?

From above, it sounds logical to have them affected by variables
controlling the looks (e.g. `org-export-with-tags') but not by those
controlling the structure (e.g. `org-export-with-section-numbers'). Both
`org-export-select-tags' and `org-export-exclude-tags' belong to the
latter[fn:1]. At least, that's my reasoning.

Why do you think `org-export-select-tags' would make sense for
inlinetasks (besides "because we can add such tags there")?

>> More generally, `org-export-with-tasks', `org-export-select-tags' and
>> `org-export-exclude-tags' only apply on headlines.
>
> I understand there is a "yes for all" / "no for all" switch, but the ability
> to mark some of the inline blocks NOT for export is a functionality which,
> IMHO, we should avoid to drop.

This functionality is already provided by drawers, as said above.

>> On the other hand, `org-export-with-inlinetasks' allows you to ignore
>> inlinetasks completely during export. For conditional export, you may
>> also want to look at drawers, which can be included/excluded by their
>> name.
>
> If inline tasks can or should be replaced by drawers, what is their
> use, then?

I never said that. I suggested to also think about drawers for
conditional export.

IIRC, their original use was to insert tasks in the agenda without
modifying the structure of the document, i.e. they were more agenda
oriented than export oriented.


Regards,

[fn:1] A more difficult variable to judge is `org-export-with-tasks'.
For now inlinetasks ignore it. Maybe they shouldn't, but that's another
question.

-- 
Nicolas Goaziou

Re: [bug] Inline tasks are exported, even with noexport tag

[Bastien]

Hi Nicolas,

Nicolas Goaziou <n.goaziou@gmail.com> writes:

> Should it? Inlinetasks are not headlines, even though they use
> a somewhat similar syntax. :noexport: tag applies to trees. Inlinetasks
> do not define a tree.

From on intuitive point of view: Inline tasks support tags, and
:noexport: means "Don't export me", me being whatever is tagged.

So I support Sébastien's idea here: :noexport: should remove
inline tasks from the exported string.  Maybe we need to set the
`org-export-filter-inlinetask-functions' at some point to support
this?

Thanks,

-- 
 Bastien

Re: [bug] Inline tasks are exported, even with noexport tag

[Nicolas Goaziou]

Hello,

Bastien <bzg@altern.org> writes:

> From on intuitive point of view: Inline tasks support tags, and
> :noexport: means "Don't export me", me being whatever is tagged.
>
> So I support Sébastien's idea here: :noexport: should remove
> inline tasks from the exported string.  Maybe we need to set the
> `org-export-filter-inlinetask-functions' at some point to support
> this?

Then should it also support `org-export-with-tasks' variable?

It's hard to tell what should be supported and what shouldn't.


Regards,

-- 
Nicolas Goaziou

Re: [bug] Inline tasks are exported, even with noexport tag

[Bastien]

Hi Nicolas,

Nicolas Goaziou <n.goaziou@gmail.com> writes:

>> So I support Sébastien's idea here: :noexport: should remove
>> inline tasks from the exported string.  Maybe we need to set the
>> `org-export-filter-inlinetask-functions' at some point to support
>> this?
>
> Then should it also support `org-export-with-tasks' variable?

Yes.  E.g. if `org-export-with-tasks' is set 'todo, only inline
tasks with a TODO keyword should be exported.

-- 
 Bastien

Re: [bug] Inline tasks are exported, even with noexport tag

[Nicolas Goaziou]

Bastien <bzg@gnu.org> writes:

>> Then should it also support `org-export-with-tasks' variable?
>
> Yes.  E.g. if `org-export-with-tasks' is set 'todo, only inline
> tasks with a TODO keyword should be exported.

Done.


Regards,

-- 
Nicolas Goaziou

Re: [bug] Inline tasks are exported, even with noexport tag

[Bastien]

Nicolas Goaziou <n.goaziou@gmail.com> writes:

> Bastien <bzg@gnu.org> writes:
>
>>> Then should it also support `org-export-with-tasks' variable?
>>
>> Yes.  E.g. if `org-export-with-tasks' is set 'todo, only inline
>> tasks with a TODO keyword should be exported.
>
> Done.

Thanks!

-- 
 Bastien

Re: [bug] Inline tasks are exported, even with noexport tag

[Sebastien Vauban]

Bastien wrote:
> Nicolas Goaziou <n.goaziou-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org> writes:
>
>> Bastien <bzg-mXXj517/zsQ@public.gmane.org> writes:
>>
>>>> Then should it also support `org-export-with-tasks' variable?
>>>
>>> Yes.  E.g. if `org-export-with-tasks' is set 'todo, only inline
>>> tasks with a TODO keyword should be exported.
>>
>> Done.
>
> Thanks!

Thanks!

Best regards,
  Seb

-- 
Sebastien Vauban