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Dye" To: emacs-orgmode@gnu.org Subject: Re: [FEATURE REQUEST] Timezone support in org-mode datestamps and org-agenda Date: Sun, 15 Jan 2023 09:16:22 -1000 Message-ID: <875yd7h9qu.fsf@tsdye.online> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed X-AntiAbuse: This header was added to track abuse, please include it with any abuse report X-AntiAbuse: Primary Hostname - box2035.bluehost.com X-AntiAbuse: Original Domain - gnu.org X-AntiAbuse: Originator/Caller UID/GID - [47 12] / [47 12] X-AntiAbuse: Sender Address Domain - tsdye.online X-BWhitelist: no X-Source-IP: 50.113.33.148 X-Source-L: No X-Exim-ID: 1pH8mY-002m0r-Qt X-Source: X-Source-Args: X-Source-Dir: X-Source-Sender: cpe-50-113-33-148.hawaii.res.rr.com (poto-foou.tsdye.online) [50.113.33.148]:47336 X-Source-Auth: tsd@tsdye.online X-Email-Count: 1 X-Source-Cap: dHNkeWVvbmw7dHNkeWVvbmw7Ym94MjAzNS5ibHVlaG9zdC5jb20= X-Local-Domain: yes Received-SPF: pass client-ip=69.89.25.95; envelope-from=tsd@tsdye.online; helo=gproxy1-pub.mail.unifiedlayer.com X-Spam_score_int: 4 X-Spam_score: 0.4 X-Spam_bar: / X-Spam_report: (0.4 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, FROM_SUSPICIOUS_NTLD=0.499, FROM_SUSPICIOUS_NTLD_FP=1.999, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H2=-0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_PDS_OTHER_BAD_TLD=0.01 autolearn=no autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: emacs-orgmode@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "General discussions about Org-mode." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-orgmode-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org Sender: emacs-orgmode-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org X-Migadu-Country: US X-Migadu-Flow: FLOW_IN ARC-Seal: i=1; s=key1; d=yhetil.org; t=1673811374; a=rsa-sha256; cv=none; b=I7q5OF7FWKmHt7eGnYxncTv45dDMQfZycbvUyvEnDtEn+tmW/Gk7wYo60cPc3Uc7LlD7pQ Je/aTq80Vo5JfmxKtkNY1nfwJhJUfK1V7phCjtK3mQz+9y2cSsve1biMCP7AwAPQ6Sy5+M qH3pRQJkoP40EXZNShFQwIh/Y8VxOJ9OeFnCVhVDmKGCz6lgVkWo3kc9F3mE99zr7D42pE GPe5GMlORS5Rjpvz/SjhC5PQBNjKVtVQv1C/WKszwPc8zoXAd3WEMgTvpnATkpcZ6rSx1K 4vaLEU72MjS7p5+dH5u3pBnQpGpozmoEgPRoLs1QaP0LYKowbMWdeDc4gkeGBA== ARC-Authentication-Results: i=1; aspmx1.migadu.com; dkim=fail ("headers rsa verify failed") header.d=tsdye.online header.s=default header.b=wBo9RWrM; spf=pass (aspmx1.migadu.com: domain of "emacs-orgmode-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org" designates 209.51.188.17 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom="emacs-orgmode-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org"; dmarc=none ARC-Message-Signature: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=yhetil.org; s=key1; t=1673811374; h=from:from:sender:sender:reply-to:subject:subject:date:date: message-id:message-id:to:to:cc:mime-version:mime-version: content-type:content-type:list-id:list-help:list-unsubscribe: list-subscribe:list-post:dkim-signature; bh=R57StYVL81ZPYJwUZUuUv/u35tA8hh+9kY7geV5F3wA=; b=WmwTST7IWjKDaxJgEd615FiyDhGJjhjYstPMZPyPCaV8PUuf+mzXGrtQb0/2cvXLUBv0iK GSYqgY1V0fs6w9s5QPACTA009kT0sIPO4wfiigOtiIb8r+922Q540Az7shOmpNPjw8KRPj aHB413wzxbzAuclJqsRi/HUNtSPZQYDwzTZU/bNr9mVUu+hz7Kvt5knKrywjNI7hylSW+u 09k3Ds+I736b376vgTF4r82CSQx0AqDnLvkIKcKrTkS5d6RyDw2Y3seHLqcEc0oPvuLEMa 68vu7IHlGmyzCqVZ4rv7eFSXXooeY5Yow1dXzQjMZh+yQSs/IamuEOhHCPVU7A== X-Migadu-Spam-Score: -0.42 X-Spam-Score: -0.42 X-Migadu-Queue-Id: 00DC09CD6 X-Migadu-Scanner: scn1.migadu.com Authentication-Results: aspmx1.migadu.com; dkim=fail ("headers rsa verify failed") header.d=tsdye.online header.s=default header.b=wBo9RWrM; spf=pass (aspmx1.migadu.com: domain of "emacs-orgmode-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org" designates 209.51.188.17 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom="emacs-orgmode-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org"; dmarc=none X-TUID: SHTR52JsBY/R Aloha all, IIUC, timestamps in Org might be used to track two things: events and occurrences. An event refers to a particular region of space/time, in Org's case the space/time occupied by the user, regardless of which time zone the user occupies. An event might be "Brush teeth before bed" set for 10:00 PM, which the user would want to make happen at that time, regardless of the time of day in the timezone in which the timestamp was applied to the event. An occurrence refers to changes in the nature and relations of substances at a time. It takes place in absolute time in order to avoid circularity. An occurrence might be "Attend virtual meeting" set for 9:00 AM on a certain day, which the user would want to make happen at 9:00 AM on that day in the time zone where the timestamp was applied to the occurrence, regardless of the time zone where the user happened to be. I found this distinction in a book called On Truth by Frank Ramsey, that was unfinished at his untimely death at age 26. "Event" and "occurrence" were Ramsey's suggestions. He seemed to like "event", but thought "occurrence" would work, though it might be improved. I enjoy having terms for these two kinds of happenings and I'm hopeful you'll find them useful, too. All the best, Tom -- Thomas S. Dye https://tsdye.online/tsdye