\nbsp usage

\nbsp usage

[Erik Butz]

Hi all,

I have a somewhat stupid problem, but didn't find a solution in the
manual or the list archive.
I want to use the \nbsp macro to generate a '~' symbol for Latex, but
I don't seem to get it to work correctly in my case.
I want to write 200~m²

If I do: 200\nbspm^2
it gets exported as: 200\nbspm$^2$,  so the symbol is not recognized.

If I do: 200\nbsp m^2
it gets exported as 198~ m$^2$, so in addition to the nbsp there is
another space at which a linebreak can occur

trying: 200\nbsp{}m^2 in analogy to other commands
I get: 200~\{\}m$^2$, so the parentheses are not recognized as
belonging to the command.

I am using the latest org version (just did a git pull and checked
that the behavior is still there) with emacs 23.1.1

Any hints appreciated.

Thanks,

Erik

Re: \nbsp usage

[Bernt Hansen]

Erik Butz <erik.butz@googlemail.com> writes:

> Hi all,
>
> I have a somewhat stupid problem, but didn't find a solution in the
> manual or the list archive.
> I want to use the \nbsp macro to generate a '~' symbol for Latex, but
> I don't seem to get it to work correctly in my case.
> I want to write 200~m²
>
> If I do: 200\nbspm^2
> it gets exported as: 200\nbspm$^2$,  so the symbol is not recognized.
>
> If I do: 200\nbsp m^2
> it gets exported as 198~ m$^2$, so in addition to the nbsp there is
> another space at which a linebreak can occur
>
> trying: 200\nbsp{}m^2 in analogy to other commands
> I get: 200~\{\}m$^2$, so the parentheses are not recognized as
> belonging to the command.
>
> I am using the latest org version (just did a git pull and checked
> that the behavior is still there) with emacs 23.1.1
>
> Any hints appreciated.

Hi Erik,

This seems to work for me:

,----[ sample org file ]
| * nbsp
| If I do: one two three four five six seven eight nine ten eleven twelve 200\nbsp m^2 it gets exported
`----

this exports as 

,----[ latex output ]
| ...
| \label{sec-1}
| 
| If I do: one two three four five six seven eight nine ten eleven twelve 200~ m\^{}2 it gets exported
| \end{document}
`----

and when I look at that as a PDF it doesn't break between the 200 and
m^2.  I tried adding x and xx before the 200 and it pushes the entire
thing to the next line.  I can't make it break on a line so 200 is at
the end of one line and m^2 is on the following line.

Does this work for you?

-Bernt

Re: Re: \nbsp usage

[Nick Dokos]

Bernt Hansen <bernt@norang.ca> wrote:

> Erik Butz <erik.butz@googlemail.com> writes:
> 
> > Hi all,
> >
> > I have a somewhat stupid problem, but didn't find a solution in the
> > manual or the list archive.
> > I want to use the \nbsp macro to generate a '~' symbol for Latex, but
> > I don't seem to get it to work correctly in my case.
> > I want to write 200~m=C2=B2
> >
> > If I do: 200\nbspm^2
> > it gets exported as: 200\nbspm$^2$,  so the symbol is not recognized.
> >
> > If I do: 200\nbsp m^2
> > it gets exported as 198~ m$^2$, so in addition to the nbsp there is
> > another space at which a linebreak can occur
> >
> > trying: 200\nbsp{}m^2 in analogy to other commands
> > I get: 200~\{\}m$^2$, so the parentheses are not recognized as
> > belonging to the command.
> >
> > I am using the latest org version (just did a git pull and checked
> > that the behavior is still there) with emacs 23.1.1
> >
> > Any hints appreciated.
> 
> Hi Erik,
> 
> This seems to work for me:
> 
> ,----[ sample org file ]
> | * nbsp
> | If I do: one two three four five six seven eight nine ten eleven twelve 2=
> 00\nbsp m^2 it gets exported
> `----
> 
> this exports as=20
> 
> ,----[ latex output ]
> | ...
> | \label{sec-1}
> |=20
> | If I do: one two three four five six seven eight nine ten eleven twelve 2=
> 00~ m\^{}2 it gets exported
> | \end{document}
> `----
> 
> and when I look at that as a PDF it doesn't break between the 200 and
> m^2.  I tried adding x and xx before the 200 and it pushes the entire
> thing to the next line.  I can't make it break on a line so 200 is at
> the end of one line and m^2 is on the following line.
> 
> Does this work for you?
> 

Bernt,

I suspect that you cannot decide the question with a simple experiment
like this, but I have no counterexample to offer.

However, Knuth warns explicitly (p.91 of my version of the TeXbook,
paperback 19th printing, Oct. 1990) that "...you shouldn't leave any blanks
next to the ~, since they will count as additional spaces."

It may well be that TeX's line-breaking algorithm does the right thing in
the example, but when push comes to shove in a *really* complicated situation,
it might be forced to choose the space after the tilde to break the line at.

Regards,
Nick

Re: \nbsp usage

[Sébastien Vauban]

Hi Nick, Bernt, Erik and the rest,

Nick Dokos wrote:
> Bernt Hansen <bernt-CNteSEi18yz3fQ9qLvQP4Q@public.gmane.org> wrote:
>> Erik Butz <erik.butz-gM/Ye1E23mwN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> writes:
>>>
>>> If I do: 200\nbspm^2
>>> it gets exported as: 200\nbspm$^2$,  so the symbol is not recognized.

My solution is to insert a real non-breaking space (yes, it does exist, as a
different character from the space), almost invisible (light gray, by choice)
under Emacs, and correctly handled in LaTeX.

See http://comments.gmane.org/gmane.emacs.orgmode/24716
and http://article.gmane.org/gmane.emacs.orgmode/15116.

Best regards,
  Seb

-- 
Sébastien Vauban


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Re: Re: \nbsp usage

[Carsten Dominik]

Hi everyone,

20\nbsp{}m^2 should now work.

Thanks!

- Carsten

On Jul 14, 2010, at 9:19 AM, Sébastien Vauban wrote:

> Hi Nick, Bernt, Erik and the rest,
>
> Nick Dokos wrote:
>> Bernt Hansen <bernt@norang.ca> wrote:
>>> Erik Butz <erik.butz@googlemail.com> writes:
>>>>
>>>> If I do: 200\nbspm^2
>>>> it gets exported as: 200\nbspm$^2$,  so the symbol is not  
>>>> recognized.
>
> My solution is to insert a real non-breaking space (yes, it does  
> exist, as a
> different character from the space), almost invisible (light gray,  
> by choice)
> under Emacs, and correctly handled in LaTeX.
>
> See http://comments.gmane.org/gmane.emacs.orgmode/24716
> and http://article.gmane.org/gmane.emacs.orgmode/15116.
>
> Best regards,
>  Seb
>
> -- 
> Sébastien Vauban
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Emacs-orgmode mailing list
> Please use `Reply All' to send replies to the list.
> Emacs-orgmode@gnu.org
> http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/emacs-orgmode

- Carsten

Re: Re: \nbsp usage

[Erik Butz]

Hi Carsten,

unfortunately, after doing a 'git pull' and recompiling \nbsp{}m^2
still results in 200~\{\}m$^2$  for me.

Cheers,

Erik

2010/7/14 Carsten Dominik <carsten.dominik@gmail.com>:
> Hi everyone,
>
> 20\nbsp{}m^2 should now work.
>
> Thanks!
>
> - Carsten
>
> On Jul 14, 2010, at 9:19 AM, Sébastien Vauban wrote:
>
>> Hi Nick, Bernt, Erik and the rest,
>>
>> Nick Dokos wrote:
>>>
>>> Bernt Hansen <bernt@norang.ca> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Erik Butz <erik.butz@googlemail.com> writes:
>>>>>
>>>>> If I do: 200\nbspm^2
>>>>> it gets exported as: 200\nbspm$^2$,  so the symbol is not recognized.
>>
>> My solution is to insert a real non-breaking space (yes, it does exist, as
>> a
>> different character from the space), almost invisible (light gray, by
>> choice)
>> under Emacs, and correctly handled in LaTeX.
>>
>> See http://comments.gmane.org/gmane.emacs.orgmode/24716
>> and http://article.gmane.org/gmane.emacs.orgmode/15116.
>>
>> Best regards,
>>  Seb
>>
>> --
>> Sébastien Vauban
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Emacs-orgmode mailing list
>> Please use `Reply All' to send replies to the list.
>> Emacs-orgmode@gnu.org
>> http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/emacs-orgmode
>
> - Carsten
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Emacs-orgmode mailing list
> Please use `Reply All' to send replies to the list.
> Emacs-orgmode@gnu.org
> http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/emacs-orgmode
>

Re: \nbsp usage

[Bernt Hansen]

Erik Butz <erik.butz@googlemail.com> writes:

> unfortunately, after doing a 'git pull' and recompiling \nbsp{}m^2
> still results in 200~\{\}m$^2$  for me.

It works for me.

200\nbsp{}m^2

becomes

200~m\^{}2

Are you running the latest version?  Maybe you have older complied files?

-Bernt

Re: Re: \nbsp usage

[Nick Dokos]

Bernt Hansen <bernt@norang.ca> wrote:

> Erik Butz <erik.butz@googlemail.com> writes:
> 
> > unfortunately, after doing a 'git pull' and recompiling \nbsp{}m^2
> > still results in 200~\{\}m$^2$  for me.
> 
> It works for me.
> 

Works for me too.

Nick

Re: Re: \nbsp usage

[Erik Butz]

Hi all,

the problem was on my side, the change was for some reason not picked
up by git.
Works also for me now.

Thanks Carsten for the quick fix.

Cheers,

Erik

Re: Re: \nbsp usage

[Bernt Hansen]

Nick Dokos <nicholas.dokos@hp.com> writes:

> Bernt Hansen <bernt@norang.ca> wrote:
>
>> Erik Butz <erik.butz@googlemail.com> writes:
>> 
>> > I want to use the \nbsp macro to generate a '~' symbol for Latex, but
>> > I don't seem to get it to work correctly in my case.
>> > I want to write 200~m=C2=B2
>> >
>> > If I do: 200\nbspm^2
>> > it gets exported as: 200\nbspm$^2$,  so the symbol is not recognized.
>> >
>> > If I do: 200\nbsp m^2
>> > it gets exported as 198~ m$^2$, so in addition to the nbsp there is
>> > another space at which a linebreak can occur
>> >
>> > trying: 200\nbsp{}m^2 in analogy to other commands
>> > I get: 200~\{\}m$^2$, so the parentheses are not recognized as
>> > belonging to the command.
>> >
>> This seems to work for me:
>> 
>> ,----[ sample org file ]
>> | * nbsp
>> | If I do: one two three four five six seven eight nine ten eleven twelve 2=
>> 00\nbsp m^2 it gets exported
>> `----
>> 
>> this exports as=20
>> 
>> ,----[ latex output ]
>> | ...
>> | \label{sec-1}
>> |=20
>> | If I do: one two three four five six seven eight nine ten eleven twelve 2=
>> 00~ m\^{}2 it gets exported
>> | \end{document}
>> `----
>> 
>> and when I look at that as a PDF it doesn't break between the 200 and
>> m^2.  I tried adding x and xx before the 200 and it pushes the entire
>> thing to the next line.  I can't make it break on a line so 200 is at
>> the end of one line and m^2 is on the following line.
>
> I suspect that you cannot decide the question with a simple experiment
> like this, but I have no counterexample to offer.
>
> However, Knuth warns explicitly (p.91 of my version of the TeXbook,
> paperback 19th printing, Oct. 1990) that "...you shouldn't leave any blanks
> next to the ~, since they will count as additional spaces."
>
> It may well be that TeX's line-breaking algorithm does the right thing in
> the example, but when push comes to shove in a *really* complicated situation,
> it might be forced to choose the space after the tilde to break the line at.

Ooops :)  Thanks for the pointer to the docs!

-Bernt