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[180.150.91.8]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id z22sm11072873pfa.220.2020.11.01.02.31.00 for (version=TLS1_3 cipher=TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 bits=256/256); Sun, 01 Nov 2020 02:31:01 -0800 (PST) References: <87wnz5e5lg.fsf@web.de> User-agent: mu4e 1.4.13; emacs 27.1 From: TEC To: emacs-orgmode@gnu.org Subject: Re: Thoughts on the standardization of Org Date: Sun, 01 Nov 2020 18:28:55 +0800 In-reply-to: <87wnz5e5lg.fsf@web.de> Message-ID: <874km974il.fsf@gmail.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Received-SPF: pass client-ip=2607:f8b0:4864:20::534; envelope-from=tecosaur@gmail.com; helo=mail-pg1-x534.google.com X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: No matching host in p0f cache. That's all we know. X-Spam_score_int: -20 X-Spam_score: -2.1 X-Spam_bar: -- X-Spam_report: (-2.1 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: emacs-orgmode@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.23 Precedence: list List-Id: "General discussions about Org-mode." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-orgmode-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org Sender: "Emacs-orgmode" X-Scanner: ns3122888.ip-94-23-21.eu Authentication-Results: aspmx1.migadu.com; dkim=pass header.d=gmail.com header.s=20161025 header.b=ezd+smvh; dmarc=pass (policy=none) header.from=gmail.com; spf=pass (aspmx1.migadu.com: domain of emacs-orgmode-bounces@gnu.org designates 209.51.188.17 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=emacs-orgmode-bounces@gnu.org X-Spam-Score: -1.71 X-TUID: xCAMLpcSthDb I feel that this also ties into my earlier idea of putting Emacs as/inside an LSP server for Org. I suspect there may be a a lot=20 of potential in making it dead easy to use Emacs as a tool. I'm rather busy over the next few weeks, but I'd be happy to=20 spearhead a project in this direction. Timothy. Dr. Arne Babenhauserheide writes: >> see discussion on Mauro's thread about >> the fact that it is probably just easier to use Emacs directly=20 >> if you >> need to export >> to a certain format in a specific way. It is free software=20 >> after all. > > I would like to add, that this is pretty easy to do, and also to=20 > make > independent of the users emacs environment. Here is an example=20 > that > uses the whole orgmode-babel-latex-html machinery to create=20 > derived > documents from source-of-truth org-mode files which get exported=20 > to a > book: > https://hg.sr.ht/~arnebab/ews/browse/Hauptdokument/ews30/Makefile.am?rev= =3Db8e3899c6d8b#L121 > > > chargen.tex: chargen.org $(ewstables_SOURCES)=20 > kasten-alter-groesse-gewicht.org ews30setup.el > echo yes > $$(tty); Xvfb :3 -screen 0 1024x768x16 & time=20 > DISPLAY=3D:3 HOME=3D@abs_top_srcdir@ @EMACS@ -l=20 > "@abs_top_srcdir@/ews30setup.el" --eval '(setq=20 > vc-follow-symlinks nil)' --eval '(setq org-id-locations-file=20 > "@abs_top_builddir@/.org-id-locations")' "$<" -e=20 > org-latex-export-to-latex -e kill-emacs < $$(tty) >> build.log=20 > && rm -f "@abs_top_builddir@/.org-id-locations" > > Note how this sets the HOME to the sourcedir (so a=20 > project-specific > .emacs.d setup is used) and loads ews30setup.el at startup for > additional customization. Also note the call to Xvfb which=20 > avoids > showing a graphical Emacs during build. > > > This uses an org-mode file that pulls data from tables in other=20 > org-mode > files by setting variables for code based on autotools-included > datafiles. Here=E2=80=99s an example of pulling the tables into=20 > variables: > https://hg.sr.ht/~arnebab/ews/browse/Hauptdokument/ews30/chargen.org.in?r= ev=3Db8e3899c6d8b#L153 > > #+begin_src scheme :exports none :results output raw :prologue=20 > "(import (srfi srfi-1)(ice-9 match)(ice-9 receive))(set!=20 > *random-state* (random-state-from-platform))\n" :tangle=20 > chargen.scm :noweb yes :var kernantriebe=3Dtabelle-kernantriebe=20 > :var hautfarbe=3Dtabelle-hautfarbe :var=20 > haarfarbe=3Dtabelle-haarfarbe :var augenfarbe=3Dtabelle-augenfarbe=20 > :var darstellung1=3Dtabelle-darstellung1 :var=20 > darstellung2=3Dtabelle-darstellung2 :var=20 > kleidung_oben_maenner=3Dtabelle-kleidung-fantasy-oben-maenner=20 > :var=20 > kleidung_unten_maenner=3Dtabelle-kleidung-fantasy-unten-maenner=20 > :var kleidung_oben_frauen=3Dtabelle-kleidung-fantasy-oben-frauen=20 > :var kleidung_unten_frauen=3Dtabelle-kleidung-fantasy-unten-frauen=20 > :var kleidung_oben_frauen=3Dtabelle-kleidung-fantasy-oben-frauen=20 > :var kleidung_unten_frauen=3Dtabelle-kleidung-fantasy-unten-frauen=20 > :var namen=3Dtabelle-namen-fantasy-jetzt :var=20 > sex=3Dtabelle-sexualitaet :var stichwort=3Dtabelle-stichwort-fantasy > (let () > {{{chargen-setup}}} > {{{chargen-generic}}} > {{{chargen-colors}}} > {{{chargen-specifics-fantasy}}} > {{{chargen-print-char}}} > (chargen-print-char) > ) > #+end_src > > > Note the {{{=E2=80=A6}}} blocks. Those use literate programming to=20 > include > blocks defined below, with customized separators: > chargen-setup block:=20 > https://hg.sr.ht/~arnebab/ews/browse/Hauptdokument/ews30/chargen.org.in?r= ev=3Db8e3899c6d8b#L360 > customization of separators:=20 > https://hg.sr.ht/~arnebab/ews/browse/Hauptdokument/ews30/chargen.org.in?r= ev=3Db8e3899c6d8b#L638 > # Local Variables: > # org-confirm-babel-evaluate: nil > # org-export-allow-bind-keywords: t > # org-babel-noweb-wrap-start: "{{{" > # org-babel-noweb-wrap-end: "}}}" > # End: > > > Here=E2=80=99s how it pulls tables: > https://hg.sr.ht/~arnebab/ews/browse/Hauptdokument/ews30/chargen.org.in?r= ev=3Db8e3899c6d8b#L578 > @tabelle_aussehen@ > > > And this is an example of the datafiles that are used as=20 > source-of-truth > and also directly inluded in the main book as tables: > https://hg.sr.ht/~arnebab/ews/browse/Hauptdokument/ews30/tabelle-aussehen= .org?rev=3Db8e3899c6d8b#L578 > > #+tblname: tabelle-hautfarbe > | | -5 | direkt | 6 | > |------+--------+-------------+----------------| > | -3 | blass | rosig | sommersprossig | > | -1 | grau | gelblich | elfenbein | > | 2 | kupfer | rotbraun | bronze | > | 4 | oliv | dunkelbraun | schwarz | > | -5/6 | albino | - | fleckig | > > > All this machinery can be invoked without ever seeing Emacs. > > > So yes, the Emacs implementation is the source of truth, and=20 > yes, this > can be used without requiring people to operate Emacs by simply=20 > using > Emacs as utility with project-specific setup =E2=80=94 just as you would= =20 > do it > with a compiler. > > > Best wishes, > Arne