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Dye" To: emacs-orgmode@gnu.org Subject: Re: [FEATURE REQUEST] Timezone support in org-mode datestamps and org-agenda Date: Sat, 21 Jan 2023 05:55:54 -1000 In-reply-to: Message-ID: <874jsjkgpf.fsf@tsdye.online> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed X-AntiAbuse: This header was added to track abuse, please include it with any abuse report X-AntiAbuse: Primary Hostname - box2035.bluehost.com X-AntiAbuse: Original Domain - gnu.org X-AntiAbuse: Originator/Caller UID/GID - [47 12] / [47 12] X-AntiAbuse: Sender Address Domain - tsdye.online X-BWhitelist: no X-Source-IP: 50.113.33.148 X-Source-L: No X-Exim-ID: 1pJGVr-001nkp-3Q X-Source: X-Source-Args: X-Source-Dir: X-Source-Sender: cpe-50-113-33-148.hawaii.res.rr.com (poto-foou.tsdye.online) [50.113.33.148]:56612 X-Source-Auth: tsd@tsdye.online X-Email-Count: 1 X-Source-Cap: dHNkeWVvbmw7dHNkeWVvbmw7Ym94MjAzNS5ibHVlaG9zdC5jb20= X-Local-Domain: yes Received-SPF: pass client-ip=69.89.21.30; envelope-from=tsd@tsdye.online; helo=qproxy5-pub.mail.unifiedlayer.com X-Spam_score_int: -13 X-Spam_score: -1.4 X-Spam_bar: - X-Spam_report: (-1.4 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, FROM_SUSPICIOUS_NTLD=0.5, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H3=0.001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_PDS_OTHER_BAD_TLD=0.01, URIBL_CSS=0.1, URIBL_CSS_A=0.1 autolearn=no autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: emacs-orgmode@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "General discussions about Org-mode." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-orgmode-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org Sender: emacs-orgmode-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org X-Migadu-Country: US X-Migadu-Flow: FLOW_IN ARC-Seal: i=1; s=key1; d=yhetil.org; t=1674317816; a=rsa-sha256; cv=none; b=BnedpQYaYOL7TLb/YbzHMXIzCNEnczMhYEI5FwOqmc7DsLOMzIHs4+djTTrVhe0iV4i4gr nH6qF6ilNWqlhcoxG3izYsY1gVyrg9k0vk5E6NLC7U7hZn93+hEwH9GElwbhFSDo+m8aZv 036/uPyg1ech9IE0DjCinsRklH/9nCvHAiExNfMKzOm654ec3c8neCzkjVcXNHzsV+fe/0 17n0MY2VHhik0inHRzy+1YJf8/k1h98n/isI0Ne+C1VIoUS1Y6BTmKWgS7Tjs3yWoVv0tO LDIlx0KIM9IF4XmzOWbv7d+Wyjdpv5UJjJDb8VZsGYU2UCuhvqEGVWrzUwNscw== ARC-Authentication-Results: i=1; aspmx1.migadu.com; dkim=fail ("headers rsa verify failed") header.d=tsdye.online header.s=default header.b=oYS6vBmI; dmarc=none; spf=pass (aspmx1.migadu.com: domain of "emacs-orgmode-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org" designates 209.51.188.17 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom="emacs-orgmode-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org" ARC-Message-Signature: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=yhetil.org; s=key1; t=1674317816; h=from:from:sender:sender:reply-to:subject:subject:date:date: message-id:message-id:to:to:cc:mime-version:mime-version: content-type:content-type:in-reply-to:in-reply-to: references:references:list-id:list-help:list-unsubscribe: list-subscribe:list-post:dkim-signature; bh=aJacSOelN8C6ZF0KJwIu1ZeTTPwHZ5jZlCbLZlUMERk=; b=Xgw7C/aNKu+uuM044GVMO1/GOqUzR+QBIdD2aWNuHGHlPjJN7J7HwfQM0jdfE94FDaABTr vyKlZh0RUpSa/DmUVFFsGsBPfberXRxGhW2qy3eJO7qkeglDR06CPD2juZ1hBF262zSQfc 2EOiWJViU+68DwXS2ztXpf1fmLQOetBJcDKMDPustdWK1d07TDfD3oYZ7xpO8yqBrYSdij TyveCYP1keVRrlaMOahZ+2FoN6DGDW8ohln4rXEdKrmUzIejAI2oeFuH7KwlDXF4PlfbXD nQOynHLdfuY2TE69vwcAWVeCGxbrZWA7+9Nwzb4dn1sAwtbAjbxspzWxfIzwlg== X-Spam-Score: 1.00 X-Migadu-Queue-Id: 2D6043C25C Authentication-Results: aspmx1.migadu.com; dkim=fail ("headers rsa verify failed") header.d=tsdye.online header.s=default header.b=oYS6vBmI; dmarc=none; spf=pass (aspmx1.migadu.com: domain of "emacs-orgmode-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org" designates 209.51.188.17 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom="emacs-orgmode-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org" X-Migadu-Scanner: scn0.migadu.com X-Migadu-Spam-Score: 1.00 X-TUID: /oIKFMd371bV Aloha Max, Max Nikulin writes: > On 21/01/2023 07:37, Thomas S. Dye wrote: >>>> 1) Occurrence, where the timestamp includes UTC; >>>> 2) Event relative to user, where the timestamp does not >>>> include UTC or a >>>> time zone; and 3) >>>> Event not relative to user, where the timestamp includes the >>>> relevant time >>>> zone. > > For a while I prefer to concentrate on future timestamps and > postpone discussion > of ones in the past. I'm curious to find out how the distinction between past and future makes a difference. > As to format for storage timestamps in Org files, particular > timestamps may have > or not explicitly specified timezones, but it is unrelated to > these 3 cases. I'm curious to learn the classification unrelated to these three cases used to determine when to store UTC and timezone. > It > may be convenient to keep work.org file with TIMEZONE keyword > for location of > the office and do not specify it for each timestamps, so during > a trip it allows > to see correct time of regular meetings. In addition you may > have personal.org > file where most timestamps assumes timezone of your current > presence. In both > files some timestamps may have explicit timezone either "local > follow me", UTC, > or for particular location. > > From my point of view these, 3 cases might be relevant to > date-time picker UI, > but not for storage format. While parsing, interpretation of > each timestamp > without explicit timezone depends on preferences chosen at > higher scope. I'm curious what these preferences are, or might be. > >> Or, it might be a recurring virtual meeting that the boss wants >> to initiate at >> 9:00 AM her time, regardless of the time zone she happens to >> inhabit, as might >> happen on a business trip. > > I believe that some manual action is required in this case > anyway. You almost > certainly already have 9:00 AM in your agenda as a reoccurring > timestamp either > with implicit or explicit timezone of usual presence. For the > period of the trip > it is necessary to add series of meetings with explicitly > specified timezones > (UTC or locations during the trip). Another approach is to > define ad hoc "boss" > timezone and update it to reflect all trips. Agreed. The boss needs to inform you what her local time will be for the meeting by sending you a timestamp with a time zone. Ideally, Org would know how to associate the timestamp with a recurring item stored locally. > > At the Org side it might be support of multiple ad hoc > "timezones": a one for > you personal trips and several ones for people you frequently > communicate with. > It is a nice option, but might be too complicated for usage. It > may be easier to > suspend regular entry and to add custom ones with no > requirements related to the > code. Anyway it assumes some communication between participants. Nowadays, I am frequently asked by applications to give permission for using my location. When I give it, the application reports back with my local postal code, etc. I'm assuming Org can use location to determine my current timezone. All the best, Tom -- Thomas S. Dye https://tsdye.online/tsdye