From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mp1 ([2001:41d0:2:4a6f::]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits)) by ms11 with LMTPS id OOCjNJl+rV4KKgAA0tVLHw (envelope-from ) for ; Sat, 02 May 2020 14:07:21 +0000 Received: from aspmx1.migadu.com ([2001:41d0:2:4a6f::]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits)) by mp1 with LMTPS id UCfSC6R+rV7+YAAAbx9fmQ (envelope-from ) for ; Sat, 02 May 2020 14:07:32 +0000 Received: from lists.gnu.org (lists.gnu.org [IPv6:2001:470:142::17]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by aspmx1.migadu.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 6EC4D942F42 for ; Sat, 2 May 2020 14:07:30 +0000 (UTC) Received: from localhost ([::1]:40962 helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1jUsni-0005RM-N5 for larch@yhetil.org; Sat, 02 May 2020 10:07:30 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:57022) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1jUsnK-0005P3-4p for emacs-orgmode@gnu.org; Sat, 02 May 2020 10:07:06 -0400 Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1jUsnJ-0006GQ-Hk for emacs-orgmode@gnu.org; Sat, 02 May 2020 10:07:05 -0400 Received: from relay3-d.mail.gandi.net ([217.70.183.195]:49663) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1jUsnI-0006Ev-Sr for emacs-orgmode@gnu.org; Sat, 02 May 2020 10:07:05 -0400 X-Originating-IP: 185.131.40.67 Received: from localhost (40-67.ipv4.commingeshautdebit.fr [185.131.40.67]) (Authenticated sender: admin@nicolasgoaziou.fr) by relay3-d.mail.gandi.net (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id ABE5F60003; Sat, 2 May 2020 14:07:00 +0000 (UTC) From: Nicolas Goaziou To: "Bruce D'Arcus" Subject: Re: wip-cite status question and feedback References: <777184861.71192.1586510991834@office.mailbox.org> <87h7xp0z1y.fsf@nicolasgoaziou.fr> <874kto245n.fsf@nicolasgoaziou.fr> <87sgh8zpmg.fsf@nicolasgoaziou.fr> <1084456979.81820.1586724551265@office.mailbox.org> <877dykz6ri.fsf@nicolasgoaziou.fr> <87r1wrwvam.fsf@fastmail.fm> <87wo6hfg4k.fsf@aquinas> <87v9lx6ju6.fsf@aquinas> <87r1wj7scc.fsf@aquinas> <87lfmjzgeq.fsf@nicolasgoaziou.fr> <87h7x7z62q.fsf@nicolasgoaziou.fr> <87k11v5zdn.fsf@aquinas> Mail-Followup-To: "Bruce D'Arcus" , Richard Lawrence , org-mode-email , John Kitchin Date: Sat, 02 May 2020 16:06:58 +0200 In-Reply-To: (Bruce D'Arcus's message of "Fri, 1 May 2020 13:54:43 -0400") Message-ID: <87368i77nh.fsf@nicolasgoaziou.fr> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/26.3 (gnu/linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Received-SPF: pass client-ip=217.70.183.195; envelope-from=mail@nicolasgoaziou.fr; helo=relay3-d.mail.gandi.net X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: First seen = 2020/05/02 10:07:02 X-ACL-Warn: Detected OS = Linux 3.11 and newer [fuzzy] X-Received-From: 217.70.183.195 X-BeenThere: emacs-orgmode@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.23 Precedence: list List-Id: "General discussions about Org-mode." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Cc: Richard Lawrence , org-mode-email , John Kitchin Errors-To: emacs-orgmode-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org Sender: "Emacs-orgmode" X-Scanner: scn0 X-Spam-Score: -1.01 Authentication-Results: aspmx1.migadu.com; dkim=none; dmarc=none; spf=pass (aspmx1.migadu.com: domain of emacs-orgmode-bounces@gnu.org designates 2001:470:142::17 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=emacs-orgmode-bounces@gnu.org X-Scan-Result: default: False [-1.01 / 13.00]; RCVD_VIA_SMTP_AUTH(0.00)[]; GENERIC_REPUTATION(0.00)[-0.4950107874721]; HAS_XOIP(0.00)[]; DWL_DNSWL_FAIL(0.00)[2001:470:142::17:server fail]; R_SPF_ALLOW(-0.20)[+ip6:2001:470:142::/48:c]; IP_REPUTATION_HAM(0.00)[asn: 22989(0.15), country: US(-0.00), ip: 2001:470:142::17(-0.50)]; TO_DN_ALL(0.00)[]; MX_GOOD(-0.50)[cached: eggs.gnu.org]; MAILLIST(-0.20)[mailman]; FREEMAIL_TO(0.00)[gmail.com]; RCVD_IN_DNSWL_FAIL(0.00)[2001:470:142::17:server fail]; RCVD_TLS_LAST(0.00)[]; R_DKIM_NA(0.00)[]; ASN(0.00)[asn:22989, ipnet:2001:470:142::/48, country:US]; MID_RHS_MATCH_FROM(0.00)[]; TAGGED_FROM(0.00)[larch=yhetil.org]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; RCVD_COUNT_FIVE(0.00)[6]; FROM_NEQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[mail@nicolasgoaziou.fr,emacs-orgmode-bounces@gnu.org]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; RCPT_COUNT_THREE(0.00)[4]; FORGED_RECIPIENTS_MAILLIST(0.00)[]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[text/plain]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+]; DMARC_NA(0.00)[nicolasgoaziou.fr]; HAS_LIST_UNSUB(-0.01)[]; FORGED_SENDER_MAILLIST(0.00)[] X-TUID: nlLauSxCZcp3 Hello, "Bruce D'Arcus" writes: > So to sum up, I expect we will explicitly define three commands: > default (the one defined in the citation template of the style), > suppress-author (which need not be explicitly defined in the style, > since the processor knows how to achieve this), and cite-text. So, is there anything wrong with [cite:@key], [cite:-@key] and [cite/text:@key] per above? In particular, cite-text sounds like another non-default style to me, rather than a derivative of the default style, and if it does, this warrants introducing a "cite/text" syntax. E.g., what happens if default style is footnote-like and cite-text is used? Also, I've had a cursory look at "citeproc-el" implementation, and there is apparent support for capitalized citations. You don't seem to talk about this. If such a thing exists, we need to introduce another marker at the cite key level (like suppress-author). As a last, more technical point, I'm thinking about rendering citations in a pre-export phase, where the processor is handled a list of all citations as Org objects (so you can extract context about them, e.g., footnote label around it if applicable) where all prefixes and suffixes are already in the target format. More specifically, as an inaccurate but enough for the point example, in the document Go ahead, make my day [cite:@harry83 at *0:23:18*]. assuming target is LaTeX code, the processor would see something like. ((citation ... (citation-reference :key "harry83" :suffix " at \bold{0:23:18}"))) In particular, does Citeproc handle raw LaTeX, or more generally, any code in (pre|suf)fix, as long as the locator is accessible? I assume so, but I'd rather ask. Regards, -- Nicolas Goaziou