From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 From: Dan Davison Subject: Re: How to get pretty printed source code in PDFLaTeX Date: Tue, 10 Aug 2010 13:37:54 -0400 Message-ID: <871va6xtal.fsf@stats.ox.ac.uk> References: <308653.38337.qm@web65503.mail.ac4.yahoo.com> <871vacswh4.fsf@stats.ox.ac.uk> <87aap0ol2n.fsf@gmx.de> <877hk4rbco.fsf@stats.ox.ac.uk> <8762zoogf5.fsf@gmx.de> <87k4o4893x.fsf_-_@mundaneum.com> <87vd7nn9lt.fsf@stats.ox.ac.uk> <87aaovcyvc.fsf@mundaneum.com> <87hbj31kup.fsf@stats.ox.ac.uk> <1DF1CFB0-2986-4A04-A4D2-AF2279F0A54E@tsdye.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Return-path: Received: from [140.186.70.92] (port=33286 helo=eggs.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Oism0-0002zS-Jz for emacs-orgmode@gnu.org; Tue, 10 Aug 2010 13:38:02 -0400 Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1Oisly-0000Ee-Ow for emacs-orgmode@gnu.org; Tue, 10 Aug 2010 13:38:00 -0400 Received: from markov.stats.ox.ac.uk ([163.1.210.1]:40346) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1Oisly-0000EI-Gt for emacs-orgmode@gnu.org; Tue, 10 Aug 2010 13:37:58 -0400 In-Reply-To: <1DF1CFB0-2986-4A04-A4D2-AF2279F0A54E@tsdye.com> (Thomas S. Dye's message of "Tue, 10 Aug 2010 06:38:24 -1000") List-Id: "General discussions about Org-mode." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: emacs-orgmode-bounces+geo-emacs-orgmode=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Errors-To: emacs-orgmode-bounces+geo-emacs-orgmode=m.gmane.org@gnu.org To: "Thomas S. Dye" Cc: =?utf-8?Q?S=C3=A9bastien?=, emacs-orgmode list , Vauban "Thomas S. Dye" writes: > Hi Dan, > > One of the design goals of LaTeX is to use semantic markup in the > source and to keep details of representation separate, typically in a > style or class file that is used to render the semantic markup. From > this perspective, the cleanest implementation would be to create a > LaTeX style or class file for use with org-mode, where the gory > details of listings vs. minted, etc. Yes, although may I repeat that in the case of minted there are no gory details. The patch I submitted already works to give org users out-of-the-box pretty fontified code with nothing more required than installation of pygments and putting minted.sty in a suitable place. Pending the work on listings that you and Seb and I are proposing, the minted patch is therefore a useful advance for org mode. It can always be removed later if it becomes clear that it is completely redundant in view of newly improved org/listings support. But yes, absolutely, what you say is definitely helpful for those planning work on improving listings support. Dan > could be worked out. This would > leave org-mode to do what it does very well, which is to identify and > mark the relevant semantic units, and would at the same time simplify > org-mode configuration. > > For the user, this would require the org-mode.sty or org-mode.cls file > be placed somewhere LaTeX could find it and creating an export target > for it in .emacs. > > This might not qualify as "out of the box" but the looser coupling > between org-mode and LaTeX is likely to be a plus in the long run. > > All the best, > Tom > > On Aug 9, 2010, at 12:29 PM, Dan Davison wrote: > >> >> >> S=C3=A9bastien Vauban > +FvcfC7Uqw@public.gmane.org> >> writes: >> >>> Hi Dan, >>> >>> Dan Davison wrote: >>>> S=C3=A9bastien Vauban >>>> >>> > writes: >>>>> Sebastian Rose wrote: >>>>>> Dan Davison >>>>>> writes: >>>>>>> Can you point me to an example that shows how to make source >>>>>>> code in >>>>>>> latex look (almost) as nice as html? >>>>>> >>>>>> That is supposed to work with the `listings' package. I havent >>>>>> tried that >>>>>> yet. >>>>> >>>>> If I understand you right, here's such an example you're after: >>>>> >>>>> * Much better code >> >> [...] >> >>>>> I've put the PDF (for easy access) onto my Web site: >>>>> >>>>> http://www.mygooglest.com/sva/ECM-Listings.pdf >>>> >>>> Wow, that's really nice. Thanks for sharing that. >>> >>> I really thought that you used such a thing for a long time, having >>> done so >>> much for Org-Babel. Maybe you were more interested by the execution >>> stuff, >>> rather than its printing? For me, the opposite: I was much >>> interested by the >>> printing, now by accessing all the power of Babel. >> >> You're probably right that I should have looked into it. But seeing as >> the HTML export of code is so nice and requred no configuration, I >> never >> got round to it. Although I did write my Ph.D. in latex, and I am >> enjoying using the listings package for formatting pseudocode in a >> paper >> which I'm supposed to be writing, I do need to become better friends >> with latex, it's true. >> >>>> I think we should aim to get to a point where org-mode can produce >>>> such >>>> nicely formatted source code out-of-the-box. >>> >>> I share your point. I'm willing to participate, or even begin, such >>> a page on >>> Worg, with the above info. >>> >>>> Maybe we could even make latex inherit the colours and fonts that >>>> emacs is >>>> currently using for source code mark up? >>> >>> For sure, that'd be nice. You mean the way htmlize works, and keeps >>> my colors, >>> right? >>> >>> Dunno what it implies for Org-LaTeX... Generating your own class >>> customization, >>> and having it loaded by default (in the list of LaTeX packages)? >> >> Usage of listings is controlled by the variable >> `org-export-latex-listings', so the simplest start would be: if that >> is >> non-nil then code like yours could be inserted into the latex output. >> >>> >>>> I was going to suggest doing this with listings but then came >>>> across minted, >>>> and I wonder whether that's even more suitable? (See the other >>>> post I just >>>> made.) >>> >>> Never heard about it before, while I'm trying to follow info about >>> TeX as >>> well. >>> >>> I'm very impressed by the quality and reaction time of >>> french.computers.text.tex. So, I decided to ask them what they >>> thought about >>> Listings vs Minted. >> >> ,---- >> | "sur un post de Dan Davison parlant d'un nouveau paquet qui >> | serait mieux que Listings." >> `---- >> >> Hey, I never said that! :) >> >> I said it might be better *for export of code from org-mode*. But >> seriously, no problem, in addition to my character assassination, from >> what I could make out they made lots of good points. Although I will >> watch out now if I come across any francophones who look like they >> might >> be tex enthusiasts (wouldn't one always...) >> >> What I meant is that seeing as org-users who set >> `org-export-latex-listings' get black and white code with ugly fonts >> by >> default, there are two improvement options for us: >> >> 1. we work on incorporating nice listings configuration into org >> mode so >> that Org users get nice colours and fonts by default >> 2. we add an option to allow Org users to use the minted package, >> which >> gives them nice colours and fonts automatically. >> >> (2) was easy and so I did it straight away. And (1) is still something >> we want to do, not least because listings is in standard latex >> distributions and doesn't have an extra python requirement. Assuming >> that minted/pygments are stable software that will be around for a >> while, I would vote for both options ultimately being available in >> org-mode. >> >>> >>> See on >>> [[http://groups.google.com/groups/search?as_umsgid%3D87lj8gp4rr.fsf%40m= undaneum.com >>> ][Email from S=C3=A9bastien Vauban: Listings vs Minted]] >>> >>> What's interesting is that 2 brilliant people of that list >>> responded on that. >>> I could try to translate the whole, but there already is a lot. Just >>> highlighting that they don't trust that much all the facts that >>> have been used >>> against Listings (and prove what they say): about Utf-8, or the >>> number of >>> languages, etc. >>> >>> They agree with one inconvenient of Listings: the fact that, by >>> default, it >>> uses bad settings (like no color, and proportional font). >>> >>> On the other hand, they don't like implying the use of an external >>> language to >>> LaTeX. Impacts on shell-escape. >>> >>> The discussion is going on. I'll keep you posted. >>> >>> For sure, the objective of getting better out-of-the-box is a goal >>> we can >>> reach. >> >> Excellent, I think that will be a good addition to org-mode. >> >> Dan >> >>> >>> Best regards, >>> Seb >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Emacs-orgmode mailing list >> Please use `Reply All' to send replies to the list. >> Emacs-orgmode@gnu.org >> http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/emacs-orgmode > > > _______________________________________________ > Emacs-orgmode mailing list > Please use `Reply All' to send replies to the list. > Emacs-orgmode@gnu.org > http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/emacs-orgmode