From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mp2 ([2001:41d0:2:4a6f::]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits)) by ms11 with LMTPS id oM96EEHZn193ewAA0tVLHw (envelope-from ) for ; Mon, 02 Nov 2020 10:02:41 +0000 Received: from aspmx1.migadu.com ([2001:41d0:2:4a6f::]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits)) by mp2 with LMTPS id GMtRDEHZn1+ZWgAAB5/wlQ (envelope-from ) for ; Mon, 02 Nov 2020 10:02:41 +0000 Received: from lists.gnu.org (lists.gnu.org [209.51.188.17]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by aspmx1.migadu.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 54334940876 for ; Mon, 2 Nov 2020 10:02:40 +0000 (UTC) Received: from localhost ([::1]:37578 helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1kZWfe-0000Rp-RJ for larch@yhetil.org; Mon, 02 Nov 2020 05:02:38 -0500 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:50318) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1kZWYD-0006yB-1i for emacs-orgmode@gnu.org; Mon, 02 Nov 2020 04:54:57 -0500 Received: from mout.web.de ([212.227.15.4]:58685) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1kZWYA-0008L8-S3 for emacs-orgmode@gnu.org; Mon, 02 Nov 2020 04:54:56 -0500 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=web.de; s=dbaedf251592; t=1604310819; bh=m/pJJs8HlNYyUku1KXc73NTYXqF+cdfom5x2fAm/VUU=; h=X-UI-Sender-Class:References:From:To:Cc:Subject:In-reply-to:Date; b=NPO7m3CIV7odtYt7d303lPYpDrM/ywgVL2TJnzaKHzaWLb5OdB4nMFx5SthigKrX5 ZqoSkly6Z63xUvcZ8ByevDpwXOvzVsDIoIh/PNKRT4fteDoWOoOOg+yuurWX3nPriu Cy6qDJiZIkTLF1Y2OCbJIccpAf4T/fu6mstcGn8w= X-UI-Sender-Class: c548c8c5-30a9-4db5-a2e7-cb6cb037b8f9 Received: from fluss ([80.136.28.200]) by smtp.web.de (mrweb003 [213.165.67.108]) with ESMTPSA (Nemesis) id 0LbrTY-1k7v0R1fro-00jKBE; Mon, 02 Nov 2020 10:53:39 +0100 References: <20201101161317.GA6609@maokai> <87imaoekrz.fsf@web.de> <39fb1f8d-4407-9359-ad14-72ae7841fda9@grinta.net> User-agent: mu4e 1.4.13; emacs 27.1 From: "Dr. Arne Babenhauserheide" To: Daniele Nicolodi Subject: Re: Thoughts on the standardization of Org In-reply-to: <39fb1f8d-4407-9359-ad14-72ae7841fda9@grinta.net> Date: Mon, 02 Nov 2020 10:53:30 +0100 Message-ID: <871rhcdqzp.fsf@web.de> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; boundary="=-=-="; micalg=pgp-sha256; protocol="application/pgp-signature" X-Provags-ID: V03:K1:01UXlUxjeq35ApLRztFW6m48vt4GEhjEJWy5FWqZku2HU3xxlGW JSHrEEav8ThYWfBBqQfXIIsnQvuMQ4nBvXPEG6p/rIB8aX5chXGhdaxiFDDYicId3wZMjK8 2E24RawZM5zHwb1kBbMu7sxKuGa1gyobodwqtD/1RDtaEkV3PcVjhXaoyqTNmLw+Xh6/WHk 6vNTpk0LixsQTnd9aKD0g== X-UI-Out-Filterresults: notjunk:1;V03:K0:OxLRNBbZ6Ts=:TBmiSuUoxfvZs8mwaDuapo OphmZPGJVbRheUUmDYMOhAtJp7YA13NbFU+j4ZDrI5Li75cJRlTRwO0Pj7cx6g/3ZNQcW7v7z k0sQis/pUOhECUzBf29GZjNwona1PsDNlaOTiYft/Jn8gNAVYx7sR6rdOGwmjieOPnKDZFajr m+l3U/dKUp+xTc6UjNSpPm8ezudbWtu/zOg3Rhx6DFPGcBRBV9OFDoDD8GEuQJFB8jMUKIPjt 0j94gEGFfc6DoNNiHxDp8rnby2duEDNznC0m9IF2KlUVABnkRDYWxvD3iqzlREXSc7gAQMGQG Liop5QT7CsCXnym5l0LI64ZuG13QMZ6uViGtTfZBnZAgfmpTrK3o0+gPGri7DIqSLws3bglfw iST0voF7Gzjay8DRJ/yxyDWVtBx/srGAdZdSRzPg7K9IYtSJe8i+cSyIWlgiu+guMvpJB5lij NtJGxbYSndJkUl3PVRvK3ACslHZKN3ucfcn+7LSF0HMFnxFk/JAJqTwqYD7jryYWEU04cpMOQ Er/mzqdjUZt7B3LDUmyMsbfpELd96ScV7Eniudtak9ZHzhGa0yVsS2MAgB/I/UgvHXjO/YTII 9W68L2d4YfpfLZAuzuWfZQQn9q66Ycb4y5+t3zjsiKrX1kvkG8wUjSh5MqzvDob3HbfGsDE7e O6ReXMSIvF1bjO3s/9/j5aYzIgozozqd8GWDdDPbG0W1wypMvC9+N8EQUdvIcigLrCzaPTXsM 6nCKDNnEQlkmy+q+SbgLxIWO0fNISTdt5S5PRJfuVm2iLP1cJt5EF0ZOo9/FJ6YrEnBCqaKKu sInX2bOg09qz2IDt1Jr/DiVn598W75XHkStGQ9AYMArVnnzfuRKuwVa512y/wVDgEwhURnm7E aH2pcmZpK9SYchY7IeOQ== Received-SPF: pass client-ip=212.227.15.4; envelope-from=arne_bab@web.de; helo=mout.web.de X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: First seen = 2020/11/02 04:53:49 X-ACL-Warn: Detected OS = Linux 2.2.x-3.x [generic] [fuzzy] X-Spam_score_int: -27 X-Spam_score: -2.8 X-Spam_bar: -- X-Spam_report: (-2.8 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H3=-0.01, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=-0.01, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: emacs-orgmode@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.23 Precedence: list List-Id: "General discussions about Org-mode." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Cc: emacs-orgmode@gnu.org Errors-To: emacs-orgmode-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org Sender: "Emacs-orgmode" X-Scanner: ns3122888.ip-94-23-21.eu Authentication-Results: aspmx1.migadu.com; dkim=pass header.d=web.de header.s=dbaedf251592 header.b=NPO7m3CI; dmarc=pass (policy=none) header.from=web.de; spf=pass (aspmx1.migadu.com: domain of emacs-orgmode-bounces@gnu.org designates 209.51.188.17 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=emacs-orgmode-bounces@gnu.org X-Spam-Score: -2.81 X-TUID: iPW+8Wryxshc --=-=-= Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Daniele Nicolodi writes: > On 02/11/2020 00:10, Dr. Arne Babenhauserheide wrote: >>=20 >> Daniele Nicolodi writes: >>> Maybe the standardization should cover only the "static" parts of Org >>> (ie no table formulas, no babel, no agenda, no exporters, etc). However, >>> in this case, what is left is little more of a markup language with an >>> editor that allows sections folding. You can have this on top of pretty >>> much any markup language using Emacs' outline-minor-mode. >>=20 >> It could become stronger competition for asciidoc by being available in >> more places. > > Why does Org need to compete with asciidoc? I don't see any advantage in > fighting with anyone for market share. That=E2=80=99s something really personal: I would prefer to use org at work= :-) >> Having an acceptance criterion for =E2=80=9Csupports basic org-mode >> presentation=E2=80=9D and =E2=80=9Ccan edit org-files without breaking e= diting in >> org-mode=E2=80=9D could help adoption. > > Acceptance criterion for what? Adoption of what? Acceptance criterion for =E2=80=9Ethis is good enough to show an org-mode document at gitlab/sr.ht/=E2=80=A6=E2=80=9C. A minimum requirement so people who write a new library have something to target. Adoption: For example for editing in the browser. It would be nice to have basic editing support in gitlab =E2=80=94 with sufficient support for = users to not break org. There are many places where people cannot actually run full Emacs, because Emacs can do far too much. If you have an online editor and anyone can file a pull-request, you really won=E2=80=99t want to have support for running arbitrary code. But i= n the actual export you might want it (after checking what you=E2=80=99ll run). #+begin_src bash :exports results echo rm -rf / echo 0day-exploit-against-docker #+end_src > It seems to me that some see a the adoption of a simplified version of > the Org markup language outside Emacs and the org-mode implementation as > something desirable. However, I don't see what the Org community would > gain from that. I am missing ways to allow people to do small changes. For example to enable people to change text in my RPG in an online-editor (i.e. gitlab) and file a pull-request without ever leaving the browser. Building a full org-mode parser is a daunting task for all but those who don=E2=80=99t know enough to do it well. So people who start will most like= ly not know enough to get a basic parser right. Defining a subset as basic-org-target would give people a target they can actually aim for. And then defer to full Emacs, if they want to do more. > As explained many times now, you don't a formal specification for this: > the specification is the org-mode implementation itself. I won=E2=80=99t argue against that because I see it the same way :-) Best wishes, Arne =2D-=20 Unpolitisch sein hei=C3=9Ft politisch sein ohne es zu merken --=-=-= Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc" -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- iQJEBAEBCAAuFiEE801qEjXQSQPNItXAE++NRSQDw+sFAl+f1x0QHGFybmVfYmFi QHdlYi5kZQAKCRAT741FJAPD643zD/9S95ox+CAaeUxKOtriRo2LRIz8vlLUggAK u3C4uH9u05EP09QxI/EZ5ZHj5Pt/t2fYz38xyIUf8ww4znP8+ApiVcF28N2bPAh5 qAppTfT7eXqQu4G6FxeFJR1m+V/2rSNDIcLIGOz55m+jxTPiZjLRMGui6DNq/yA6 YuU2sVPMp7CZ4ifc81Dm49gbnDYutlmU5+An6Qj08IstBEZ7zNGW8GR9htRr4Gg3 BIlbcgk63LETt1w2XUiioZhGklX7q43uKKa8N81aPmQcBNjAmkpFCy+hDcSeA5bB Rl3Z+H8xpRCeDcL7iorGcsZ1/YW0FO3NHdpOsxuvAM+uQz9CabBV9RjjWO0QNMh/ Bn51djpOYJ0Nwx4BR9k/rCdORQO3gyOKhmdG5GfSkee+ptR5Bw3kD1mLInQharIq HhRZTLYymNCa4S/nT8pozLxBcmwzbKGy847Fu4OPzmcZb/uUjPKWWBsUdaY8UTfC 55qOOMg2YWxOp1Pi40VUj4Ss7xQQvAxropbWxuT0wjZ9ub1eL0ezX2MZb2TUfm40 5QPsPxFbjwyGS0PYh1fKa3YGjEC6aDzzsOFf2PIpDsQY7Ae3NKyKlSvZ8iuoNNQR uQbhXQ7N+zcy8sR2dvPbBSr59b0s1cSziDafAI7ve3Ua5MIu/9YuXtPHA6PF6kS5 Bi8isrJVo4jEBAEBCAAuFiEE3Si95tmHXKvOSosd3M8NswvBBUgFAl+f1yIQHGFy bmVfYmFiQHdlYi5kZQAKCRDczw2zC8EFSO3hA/0YoDvdz76Q9x+yjFQMVOZnG2eu nZr7vqFoSrsCXHQEfb8PGdyadTf50VPmnOeYqQrDaOGM7bk+tRHD/rjerUc3i3b5 Mgym7D9PLSSfw8Jz3UUlS1SU5lv37ncRxYHIO2NH/vDCEApR3Dd/aiccxYFksXpK fhPRuGlXupVxc37mqQ== =HD5n -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --=-=-=--