From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mp0 ([2001:41d0:2:4a6f::]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits)) by ms11 with LMTPS id bTvQInSl61+dcAAA0tVLHw (envelope-from ) for ; Tue, 29 Dec 2020 21:53:56 +0000 Received: from aspmx1.migadu.com ([2001:41d0:2:4a6f::]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits)) by mp0 with LMTPS id UGpAHnSl61/XTgAA1q6Kng (envelope-from ) for ; Tue, 29 Dec 2020 21:53:56 +0000 Received: from lists.gnu.org (lists.gnu.org [209.51.188.17]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by aspmx1.migadu.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id E751194043B for ; Tue, 29 Dec 2020 21:53:55 +0000 (UTC) Received: from localhost ([::1]:52146 helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1kuMwE-00059G-Gt for larch@yhetil.org; Tue, 29 Dec 2020 16:53:54 -0500 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:41572) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1kuMvT-000597-MQ for emacs-orgmode@gnu.org; Tue, 29 Dec 2020 16:53:07 -0500 Received: from libre.brussels ([2a01:4f8:201:1044::1]:49598) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_128_GCM_SHA256:128) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1kuMvR-0006GD-Pn; Tue, 29 Dec 2020 16:53:07 -0500 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=libre.brussels; s=mail; t=1609278782; h=from:from:sender:reply-to:subject:subject:date:date: message-id:message-id:to:to:cc:cc:mime-version:mime-version: content-type:content-type: content-transfer-encoding:content-transfer-encoding: in-reply-to:in-reply-to:references:references; bh=GOJ6SmfDIF3Iw87NzO59MIXxpKJ1iesatYb4hjOwME8=; b=g4XFQcLNC2au5AG6KppL6gUt7yoQiRNxGv+IAo3yLDIIa/HJtecU5yOXawylqtyYJJx+ah UbDo//vx8zx2GPYsIp4RknEWshb7G9QKLkw1jSRh+G3/RSk0xgmS/d30jPecJi5mBokqm3 CvXZhr6GdK66yiyxKF5tmDZ1cI67ypk= References: <87tus6oxsg.fsf@posteo.net> <874kk6ynt1.fsf@mbork.pl> <87o8ieos9c.fsf@posteo.net> <87sg7pud3e.fsf@libre.brussels> <87v9clolyd.fsf@posteo.net> From: Jonathan McHugh To: Juan Manuel =?utf-8?Q?Mac=C3=ADas?= Subject: Re: Org to ConTeXt exporter? In-reply-to: <87v9clolyd.fsf@posteo.net> Date: Tue, 29 Dec 2020 22:51:05 +0100 Message-ID: <871rf8l1rq.fsf@libre.brussels> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Received-SPF: pass client-ip=2a01:4f8:201:1044::1; envelope-from=indieterminacy@libre.brussels; helo=libre.brussels X-Spam_score_int: -20 X-Spam_score: -2.1 X-Spam_bar: -- X-Spam_report: (-2.1 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, SPF_HELO_PASS=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: emacs-orgmode@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.23 Precedence: list List-Id: "General discussions about Org-mode." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Cc: ludo@gnu.org, orgmode Errors-To: emacs-orgmode-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org Sender: "Emacs-orgmode" X-Migadu-Flow: FLOW_IN X-Migadu-Spam-Score: -0.23 Authentication-Results: aspmx1.migadu.com; dkim=fail (headers rsa verify failed) header.d=libre.brussels header.s=mail header.b=g4XFQcLN; dmarc=fail reason="SPF not aligned (relaxed)" header.from=libre.brussels (policy=none); spf=pass (aspmx1.migadu.com: domain of emacs-orgmode-bounces@gnu.org designates 209.51.188.17 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=emacs-orgmode-bounces@gnu.org X-Migadu-Queue-Id: E751194043B X-Spam-Score: -0.23 X-Migadu-Scanner: scn1.migadu.com X-TUID: Siw+jy9CQpZc Hello Juan, I investigated further the Context engine for Skribilo: https://git.savannah.gnu.org/gitweb/?p=3Dskribilo.git;a=3Dtree;f=3Dsrc/guil= e/skribilo/engine;h=3D9c6353eb7c6eae70de007c2f0a8f01092ae669a2;hb=3DHEAD While I cant comment on it's Context engine functionality or efficacy, it c= learly has a decent breakdown of usecases across its 1300 lines. It appears to have had low updates frequency, probably as a consequence of the stability of Context's syntax (rather than the momentum of the DSL). It may be useful as a checklist of key terms to tick off, if not a consideration for framing anything to serve Org-Moders. I have CC=E2=80=99d Ludovic Court=C3=A8s, who has spearheaded Skribilo and = all the commits for it=E2=80=99s Context engine. Judging by his output within the G= uix community it=E2=80=99s possible that he may have some insights concerning t= his thread: https://lists.gnu.org/archive/html/emacs-orgmode/2020-12/msg00731.html Part of Skribilo=E2=80=99s homepage blurb intrigued me: "Last but not least, Skribilo can be thought of as a complete document programming framework for the Scheme programming language that may be used to automate a variety of document generation tasks. Technically, the Skribilo language/API is an embedded domain-specific language (EDSL), implemented via so-called =E2=80=9Cdeep embedding=E2=80=9D. Skribil= o uses GNU Guile 3.0 or 2.x as the underlying Scheme implementation." https://nongnu.org/skribilo/index.html Still early in my Lisp journey, I do not know whether it would be abhorrent/inelegant for the eLisp orientation of Org-Mode to defer to Guile= (at the backend) for outputting in different formats. Kind regards, Jonathan Juan Manuel Mac=C3=ADas writes: > Hello, Jonathan, > > Jonathan McHugh writes: > >> I have wondered about the interoperability between Context and Latex. >> >> As somebody who (previously) invested a lot of time into Latex, my migra= tion to >> Context (due to its emphasis on Lua) grew problematic once other commitm= ents >> grew. > > What I like about ConTeXt is its (let's say) avant-garde vocation. But > for my everyday work I prefer LaTeX: more extensible, more versatile, > even more documented. But we must accept that ConTeXt is also an > advanced typographic laboratory where many functionalities also end up > in LaTeX over time. In fact, as far as I know, the future LaTeX3 adopts > some ideas from ConTeXt. > > On Lua, LuaLaTeX also has good support. And many new LaTeX packages are > already getting very good use of LuaTeX features. > >> The lack of Context support in Org-Mode has made me consider reverting >> back to Latex. > > I know some advanced ConTeXt users (I am not) who are very interested in > migrating to Org Mode. In that aspect, I think a native exporter to > ConTeXt would be of great help. > > Generally speaking, I think Org is the perfect interface to use TeX and > friends. One of the things I like the most about Org Mode is that it > allows working in (La)TeX at a very high level. Of course, for advanced > use, the more you know about LaTeX and TeX, the better. For example, if > I work on a large book, I usually write the entire configuration (the > preamble, my macros, my LaTeX code, etc.) to an Org file, and then I gene= rate > a Preamble.tex file using tangle. I have a master file and several > subdocuments for the parts and sections of the book. And I make heavy > use of Org Publish. But in all that workflow, LaTeX is always in the > background. It is mainly a matter of comfort: I love TeX and its > derivatives, its power and its typographic refinement, but its language > is very verbose and the sources are difficult to debug. Org mode is much > more human readable. And even much more readable and comfortable than > Markdown. > >> If I had a lot of time it would be wonderful to develop parsing >> expression grammars to capture it all, irrespective of direction ... mmm= time.... > > Yes, time is the problem: I think TODO lists were invented to have a > foot of mud in the future :-) > > Regards, > > Juan Manuel=20=20=20=20=20 --=20 Jonathan McHugh indieterminacy@libre.brussels