From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mp2 ([2001:41d0:2:4a6f::]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits)) by ms0.migadu.com with LMTPS id wNQ7IHgAvWGq3wAAgWs5BA (envelope-from ) for ; Fri, 17 Dec 2021 22:26:16 +0100 Received: from aspmx1.migadu.com ([2001:41d0:2:4a6f::]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits)) by mp2 with LMTPS id CMcAHHgAvWG4DgAAB5/wlQ (envelope-from ) for ; Fri, 17 Dec 2021 21:26:16 +0000 Received: from lists.gnu.org (lists.gnu.org [209.51.188.17]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by aspmx1.migadu.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 3CD0B2FE08 for ; Fri, 17 Dec 2021 22:26:16 +0100 (CET) Received: from localhost ([::1]:58504 helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1myKk2-0003Ol-Tk for larch@yhetil.org; Fri, 17 Dec 2021 16:26:14 -0500 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([209.51.188.92]:56210) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1myKje-0003OO-CV for emacs-orgmode@gnu.org; Fri, 17 Dec 2021 16:25:50 -0500 Received: from mout02.posteo.de ([185.67.36.66]:44711) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1myKjc-0003Jt-60 for emacs-orgmode@gnu.org; Fri, 17 Dec 2021 16:25:50 -0500 Received: from submission (posteo.de [89.146.220.130]) by mout02.posteo.de (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 244AD240104 for ; Fri, 17 Dec 2021 22:25:43 +0100 (CET) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=posteo.net; s=2017; t=1639776344; bh=F5wHNSTuXeFTojtWbAEcz0W2ufKhXxUDEhc89417RLo=; h=From:To:Cc:Subject:Date:From; b=iltpAYCOvl+t9BuFe8+hzaccL7Dvzz++E4mOG5sRCPQSHh4HSoKRI+3WoiX+bfiNQ yraev9KTbM1jgvKvcGLMlcGWVrcVkTOkfb8EmGpipamosKp8HuxS3JE8Bau4THAvQ/ c2UCiHJHFHc4gq+5PKzdD+itrhFzb3tzaCqZoLIaDGbQrGdy/QoBYYSAhVwCpS7hGu IO20K3wYPHB3rLqKB9hCogA8dOWp4oqdpmsLMBmmU9LWYypSuXEMNRIwf5aVYZV1qr fZwGK5Y+KOKUaIFh0qC6tUn0lN43qEEyzt5SkDDVAEjiUTgJb4tCXoNBpQW2makrkR dntYDgepcPGww== Received: from customer (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by submission (posteo.de) with ESMTPSA id 4JG28Q4y4rz6tpT; Fri, 17 Dec 2021 22:25:42 +0100 (CET) From: =?utf-8?Q?Juan_Manuel_Mac=C3=ADas?= To: Subject: Re: format/fill of text in a cell in tables References: <874k78evcr.fsf@localhost> <87mtl0b1u2.fsf@gmail.com> <87ilvnbdkp.fsf@gmail.com> Date: Fri, 17 Dec 2021 21:25:40 +0000 In-Reply-To: (tomas@tuxteam.de's message of "Fri, 17 Dec 2021 19:46:22 +0100") Message-ID: <871r2aj54b.fsf@posteo.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Received-SPF: pass client-ip=185.67.36.66; envelope-from=maciaschain@posteo.net; helo=mout02.posteo.de X-Spam_score_int: -43 X-Spam_score: -4.4 X-Spam_bar: ---- X-Spam_report: (-4.4 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H3=0.001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: emacs-orgmode@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "General discussions about Org-mode." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Cc: orgmode Errors-To: emacs-orgmode-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org Sender: "Emacs-orgmode" X-Migadu-Flow: FLOW_IN X-Migadu-Country: US ARC-Message-Signature: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=yhetil.org; s=key1; t=1639776376; h=from:from:sender:sender:reply-to:subject:subject:date:date: message-id:message-id:to:to:cc:cc:mime-version:mime-version: content-type:content-type:in-reply-to:in-reply-to: references:references:list-id:list-help:list-unsubscribe: list-subscribe:list-post:dkim-signature; bh=Mt40oAjd5i4tG7QOAXF3SDP7sqVYYOHTumlqO/AMm3A=; b=a5ATYp9akrEsW1IArdFgn/xo0SnRqrYq3DrW7fEYQ2wjQ2RD3l61oHDNFzIVxOhtiZObHb MO6osOz2hzF3CNqIlEvNr9Tf/UAnKZAu+vAjv74FR5eZOmvs1ERwLgBhQVgYHfvt7/JPA5 KjrBHf2HchGL/JIaATPJQDUEbdVPPTmWpX+iMB8Co9H8Lsz8w4puctm3D9h7AudKJSOc/Z yQUOAIDzXybwNaNp4cBs3hfTV1Ax8+ATPDz00wwx73dxb/GwvIyaIafYJRx6XffXdWodAi sXOnWSZ0eERJ8CewE6JEYp8XDKsKxABTAzNcyUFxwbjyZsIb+DHXc/hAioffzQ== ARC-Seal: i=1; s=key1; d=yhetil.org; t=1639776376; a=rsa-sha256; cv=none; b=erhLUvA07xg/Kz0zqisoNIrUpqHGflcAkzugcQNWK69NkfWJV5E2Mu4qn12QyI8NLbdmmz LaQpngQNZRO969Ynd4TXdPRGwozc8jhKae3xlyvm+excz/B8cnija4wZILF/BbYKUI87Kg QQxt3rsqH5n6QPcMtlT3lVcY3NCrWaDm99RgG2B0hNV4W0+MbE7vbhaPk5E2jBiNnSq5Gs c4810BgxVG9BVnsC+4p8L+/wt3AnPpu1JgJCGPlWGQS22gOKk8k3BFsbeOAKTrZPFfn/uP O25XIpCWAr9KsWYz1/QaSpsfUgGzfLTneXXwy+Rw50ZvsfmnhGWBfQqXNGw9Mw== ARC-Authentication-Results: i=1; aspmx1.migadu.com; dkim=pass header.d=posteo.net header.s=2017 header.b=iltpAYCO; dmarc=pass (policy=none) header.from=posteo.net; spf=pass (aspmx1.migadu.com: domain of "emacs-orgmode-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org" designates 209.51.188.17 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom="emacs-orgmode-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org" X-Migadu-Spam-Score: -9.70 Authentication-Results: aspmx1.migadu.com; dkim=pass header.d=posteo.net header.s=2017 header.b=iltpAYCO; dmarc=pass (policy=none) header.from=posteo.net; spf=pass (aspmx1.migadu.com: domain of "emacs-orgmode-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org" designates 209.51.188.17 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom="emacs-orgmode-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org" X-Migadu-Queue-Id: 3CD0B2FE08 X-Spam-Score: -9.70 X-Migadu-Scanner: scn0.migadu.com X-TUID: /PmdJIa+5CTd tomas@tuxteam.de writes: > This reminds me of people advocating "semantic backup" (e.g. use > "emphasis" instead of "italics", until one realises that you just > managed to peel off one layer of the sematic onion. The onion just got > smaller (some literature perhaps might want to play with the ambiguity > of italics?), and if you continue, you end up with no onion at all. There is a lot of confusion between the terms 'emphasis' and 'italics/cursive'. The second term is strictly typographic-calligraphic. There are entire codices that are wrote in Byzantine cursive. And you have the Porson typeface, from the Oxford editions of Ancient Greek texts, which is a cursive, but which is used as a normal font. In an ancient text there is no notion for 'emphasis': how do we know when Homer or Sappho wanted to emphasize a phrase? Typography has historically used italics as a resource for emphasis (not in all languages, some use the separation of letters to emphasize; there are also writing systems where the concept of 'italics' or 'cursive' does not make sense), but it uses the italic also for more varied purposes: depends on the era, fashion and trends. Consider also the avant-garde poetry of the early last century, which had a great typographical dependency, as a sort of game. In addition, there is the maremagnum of graphic design, which is not strictly typography (although both terms are also confused), but use the typography for expressive purposes: advertising, etc. I remember that a long time ago I use to wrote in a typewriter, and there was a common convention in typed texts, which consisted of marking the emphases like this: _emphasis_. WYSIWYG word processors imposed a form quite unnatural to write, by confusing format and content. And they force authors to have typographical concerns at the most inopportune moment, which is the creation of content (as if Hemingway used a monotype instead of a typewriter). The proof is that hardly any of the Word users use Word styles or apply them consistently. The normal thing, with rare exceptions, is to degrade the documents using direct format, which is the great plague. I believe that a text whose main purpose is not to produce a visual impact (advertising, ritual, magic, etc.) but to transmit a thought and a content, it must have a structure. And then there will be time for that structure can be translated to other supports. Typography, in its most basic and utilitarian sense (not visual) is nothing more than a language to translate that structure, offering the maximum possible readability, through a series of techniques. And every type of content, for example a 'table' (in Org terms not typographic terms), can have many possible typographic translations, even translations that don't consist of a 'table', in typographical terms. But typography is not the only possible language to translate a content: think of texts written to be heard, or texts written for absolutely personal use. That's why I believe the least unhealthy way to put content in writing is within a environment as agnostic as possible of the format. In that environment is where the term 'emphasis' makes sense. Best regards, Juan Manuel