From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mp12.migadu.com ([2001:41d0:8:6d80::]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits)) by ms0.migadu.com with LMTPS id UFfzGVthOmIAFQAAgWs5BA (envelope-from ) for ; Wed, 23 Mar 2022 00:52:59 +0100 Received: from aspmx1.migadu.com ([2001:41d0:8:6d80::]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits)) by mp12.migadu.com with LMTPS id oHDOFlthOmIjCAAAauVa8A (envelope-from ) for ; Wed, 23 Mar 2022 00:52:59 +0100 Received: from lists.gnu.org (lists.gnu.org [209.51.188.17]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by aspmx1.migadu.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id D6E00270B0 for ; Wed, 23 Mar 2022 00:52:58 +0100 (CET) Received: from localhost ([::1]:51110 helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1nWoJ7-0007i4-SP for larch@yhetil.org; Tue, 22 Mar 2022 19:52:57 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([209.51.188.92]:44188) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1nWoIf-0007hi-Ej for emacs-orgmode@gnu.org; Tue, 22 Mar 2022 19:52:29 -0400 Received: from relay3-d.mail.gandi.net ([217.70.183.195]:56577) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1nWoId-0003KR-8X for emacs-orgmode@gnu.org; Tue, 22 Mar 2022 19:52:29 -0400 Received: (Authenticated sender: admin@nicolasgoaziou.fr) by mail.gandi.net (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 7B6A960005; Tue, 22 Mar 2022 23:52:23 +0000 (UTC) From: Nicolas Goaziou To: Max Nikulin Subject: Re: citations: org-cite vs org-ref 3.0 References: <87wngosqvm.fsf@nicolasgoaziou.fr> Mail-Followup-To: Max Nikulin , emacs-orgmode@gnu.org Date: Wed, 23 Mar 2022 00:52:22 +0100 In-Reply-To: (Max Nikulin's message of "Mon, 21 Mar 2022 21:40:31 +0700") Message-ID: <871qytlf49.fsf@nicolasgoaziou.fr> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/27.2 (gnu/linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Received-SPF: pass client-ip=217.70.183.195; envelope-from=mail@nicolasgoaziou.fr; helo=relay3-d.mail.gandi.net X-Spam_score_int: -25 X-Spam_score: -2.6 X-Spam_bar: -- X-Spam_report: (-2.6 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H3=0.001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_SCC_BODY_TEXT_LINE=-0.01 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: emacs-orgmode@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "General discussions about Org-mode." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Cc: emacs-orgmode@gnu.org Errors-To: emacs-orgmode-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org Sender: "Emacs-orgmode" X-Migadu-Flow: FLOW_IN X-Migadu-To: larch@yhetil.org X-Migadu-Country: US ARC-Message-Signature: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=yhetil.org; s=key1; t=1647993178; h=from:from:sender:sender:reply-to:subject:subject:date:date: message-id:message-id:to:to:cc:cc:mime-version:mime-version: content-type:content-type: content-transfer-encoding:content-transfer-encoding: in-reply-to:in-reply-to:references:references:list-id:list-help: list-unsubscribe:list-subscribe:list-post; bh=0AeWG6VIRrMmRGrHNtJbj9eEva+E/xyFtfD1IfQGYSw=; b=AXoIjeHZCIo4Fztz5v1Hz7vXUejjUu2XoWHe5/ufAkCtKntw8oCATIDiakG+cfiLmCZT+n 1VCG29tqhk15DBORDWNCmYPSD3VQJJQyHnfE+ZX8nt6JPE20N1Hx01reAsUGNE6B5XuFLi EOrbjEi/MHZTCbyjDgwyeQzP72Sqa+rt8m6FqJ3lvIYdEfusYwqyLDSe1JadeoGSsQX0Zw xOlcUH4ewkJ7I2H++O+DwygBPZAzun5SmH8ZzDq66u0Y8znK7BA59ODDZt0AUD92Oc0OsM g+XDDOXcuoQvEJ9l3st60Gy1k1fwe3JK0jjeJu5rJgTrGJ/7mynxIC+j4CNBcg== ARC-Seal: i=1; s=key1; d=yhetil.org; t=1647993178; a=rsa-sha256; cv=none; b=ZFwvn5QrpjchdUBll1v4zlNObTxbFBUDljIOShzlzA9CNREYO0Qt7i0SwWXxdLbQPtw02H vnD1uQnH7fjSdhOj/0wr40zR3zJYFZ1OlbkmQ1cVJ8PR5iGigeEvc5nf3d69EOoKRzRJKQ V71hLJJHSP56k3Da+EYFcTX43/EffvUp+AETX4VNksBSzvJ6qTw9z16uih75GvomqzROmH +UL4+o1HEyIJkOGloHL70RO0qiDm5Lqv3oF7q4Lt0hzd9hiaBUyA76JaHIDhSFw12294YM 00gWGNY58I8/YgriMUUwa8CfIHSN7YqI2JhORUmYZ46BjpLNFNOkEwn2a2JenA== ARC-Authentication-Results: i=1; aspmx1.migadu.com; dkim=none; dmarc=none; spf=pass (aspmx1.migadu.com: domain of "emacs-orgmode-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org" designates 209.51.188.17 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom="emacs-orgmode-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org" X-Migadu-Spam-Score: -3.30 Authentication-Results: aspmx1.migadu.com; dkim=none; dmarc=none; spf=pass (aspmx1.migadu.com: domain of "emacs-orgmode-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org" designates 209.51.188.17 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom="emacs-orgmode-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org" X-Migadu-Queue-Id: D6E00270B0 X-Spam-Score: -3.30 X-Migadu-Scanner: scn0.migadu.com X-TUID: uPkdUsLx6IcZ Hello, Max Nikulin writes: > Nicolas, I think, a part of problem is that you are not an org-cite > user. The packages require some *polishing*, but it have to be=20 > *user-driven*. Just to be clear: the development was _user-driven_ from the start. I read years of discussions about citation, suggested a syntax, waited for input, amended the syntax=E2=80=A6 Then I did the same for the whole library, implementing proof of concepts, waiting for feedback, etc. > Another point is more serious. Besides citations there are internal > cross-references. Org supports them but only in a rudimentary form.=20 > Actually cross-references are similar to citations in the sense that > they can have style, prefixes and suffixes, and their appearance > depends on target properties. Another feature is grouping. However=20 > cross-references should not be handled by citation backends, they > require different handlers. Unfortunately there is no way to define=20 > custom "citation" type e.g. "[ref:...]" in addition to "[cite:...]". There is too little information here for me to understand what cross-references (or grouping) are, or why they would require different handlers. In any case, if such thing are deemed necessary in Org Cite, one can always start a new thread. The goal of Org Cite is not to do everything, however. Its raison d'=C3=AAt= re is to provide building blocks around citations that external packages can use and extend. Therefore cross-references might belong to an extension instead. > To assign additional properties, info "(org) Links in HTML export" > https://orgmode.org/manual/Links-in-HTML-export.html recommends usage > of "#+ATTR_HTML", but such technique has several issues: This is a different issue. Citations are not link, and have a fixed set of properties. Regards, --=20 Nicolas Goaziou