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[2001:44b8:31f2:bb00:842a:7361:87c7:2662]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id 72-20020a62174b000000b0053eec4bb1b1sm257086pfx.64.2022.09.09.15.35.47 (version=TLS1_3 cipher=TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 bits=256/256); Fri, 09 Sep 2022 15:35:49 -0700 (PDT) References: <20220831161348.GA2413557@itccanarias.org> <86o7w0q9zr.fsf@gmail.com> User-agent: mu4e 1.9.0; emacs 29.0.50 From: Tim Cross To: Rudolf =?utf-8?Q?Adamkovi=C4=8D?= Cc: emacs-orgmode@gnu.org Subject: Re: Manual Ordering and Dynamic Priority Date: Sat, 10 Sep 2022 08:05:34 +1000 In-reply-to: Message-ID: <86v8pwjhvi.fsf@gmail.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Received-SPF: pass client-ip=2607:f8b0:4864:20::52e; envelope-from=theophilusx@gmail.com; helo=mail-pg1-x52e.google.com X-Spam_score_int: -20 X-Spam_score: -2.1 X-Spam_bar: -- X-Spam_report: (-2.1 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_SCC_BODY_TEXT_LINE=-0.01 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: emacs-orgmode@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "General discussions about Org-mode." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-orgmode-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org Sender: "Emacs-orgmode" X-Migadu-Flow: FLOW_IN X-Migadu-To: larch@yhetil.org X-Migadu-Country: US ARC-Message-Signature: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=yhetil.org; s=key1; t=1662762981; h=from:from:sender:sender:reply-to:subject:subject:date:date: message-id:message-id:to:to:cc:cc:mime-version:mime-version: content-type:content-type: content-transfer-encoding:content-transfer-encoding: in-reply-to:in-reply-to:references:references:list-id:list-help: list-unsubscribe:list-subscribe:list-post:dkim-signature; bh=+TJh/c3o3LFqqUW6SBtnNpGXqiv8x541XQx1LP6E20o=; b=m4O3spnoERA0X88HsXyf0BUN48hmQL19fxGnf6+jVYk1hsO0AvK6UWuDicy+AfrFu9BUJF Rd555/GA+cE2HhlrgANej/Z+GF7oa7QQS2lPXYfOuVvjR4GNAc0KQ101QLVXZdXMWc1Lbo FC49iX1kG31+6mN/kVk7u/0b0XBCisPkLUYCvN6lFTRbWq20odKscDp3pv2Op+ApO+oTxM yVwe3a+Bj2wPZ5yQa/d+hwfxLN2FML9LRs9wOlXeNHbETd6fXAatsQBjEQCLN/U3KkWEVr 1CW4UygAlz7NrcmGKFMTQ9RSDQsa+By4fBFmc+2NC/mWWb/OxDUDUSFnk3hdcQ== ARC-Seal: i=1; s=key1; d=yhetil.org; t=1662762981; a=rsa-sha256; cv=none; b=sS31PbuS5s6BbElTkNc5VMjJQS/WrgBgWpcilYRxHgR/OP7wjSl+KX0wBMsPdbjXEyh2p5 YJk0ELeytmUnen1NHr57w5WhgSaiD7oL3afdhOJZscGaWXnoAt/iKK6eq4HMUttfhYp7/t UrdSdIz+3BHeUaYZQ2YpNiwUyKacYIdjLHJuPPUMFX45ajVU4zm1IwkzJFF3A1oSbyIm3k Ci4O2M/CmOrwigDmZ+tuEDgb7vNUCGRh6ElfGHoD2KoPIO6TR+EX75rywya1h0KBvevHGl LbsKhqhkir0Va4gWmeiZpazedn64fzpiw64be/RZq2bit6FlX4Eqjcu3KK8/zA== ARC-Authentication-Results: i=1; aspmx1.migadu.com; dkim=pass header.d=gmail.com header.s=20210112 header.b=Mbulkbpf; dmarc=pass (policy=none) header.from=gmail.com; spf=pass (aspmx1.migadu.com: domain of "emacs-orgmode-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org" designates 209.51.188.17 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom="emacs-orgmode-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org" X-Migadu-Spam-Score: -2.29 Authentication-Results: aspmx1.migadu.com; dkim=pass header.d=gmail.com header.s=20210112 header.b=Mbulkbpf; dmarc=pass (policy=none) header.from=gmail.com; spf=pass (aspmx1.migadu.com: domain of "emacs-orgmode-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org" designates 209.51.188.17 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom="emacs-orgmode-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org" X-Migadu-Queue-Id: 5FA3733A3 X-Spam-Score: -2.29 X-Migadu-Scanner: scn1.migadu.com X-TUID: Swtco6YM7sqp Rudolf Adamkovi=C4=8D writes: > Tim Cross writes: > >> - Life is about getting things done, not planning to get things >> done. Overly complex management of your tasks is very likely to >> result in more time spent managing the tasks than actually doing >> the tasks. > > Let me share a slightly different experience. > > I used to minimize the time I spent on planning, wanting to start > "actually doing the tasks". Looking back, it often led to pointless > work and wasted time. So, I changed my ways! > > These days, I do not mind spending half a day, or more, on planning my > learning week at school. I also do not mind "more time spent managing > the tasks than actually doing the tasks" because I noticed that it > might, unexpectedly, change the entire equation. For example, at work, > I noticed that careful planning, which includes design, can save ten > times the time it takes, though one never knows for sure beforehand. > > For another example, I spent two days designing my Org Agenda. I first > made some drawings on paper, thinking carefully about what I want from > it, and then configured Emacs to compute it that way. It might sound > crazy, for I could have spent those two days "actually doing the tasks", > but I thank myself every day for doing it! > The difference here is in what we define as planning. For example, I would not consider 2 days spend designing how my agenda would work as task planning - that is design work. What I'm referring to is having a task management process where you spend large amounts of time just managing the item 'metadata' - not actually working on the item at all, but just tracking its state, progress, priority, etc.=20 Planning as a task in itself is very important. I live by the 6Ps (Piss-poor planning prevents poor performance). However, that planning effort needs to be focused on moving things forward. Too often, I see people make the same error with org mode. They develop a complex all singing and dancing workflow for recording, tracking and managing their tasks. Before they realise it, they become a slave to the process and spend lots of time updating task state information, changing priorities and schedules, making notes which never get read again and tracking everything at a micro level. AS an extreme example, I saw someone once who had in their list of tasks "Get out of bed" - honestly, what is having that task really adding except noise and wasted time. Do you really need a task telling you to get out of bed? I've seen other examples where people find they are overwhelmed with the number of tasks in their task list, but when you look at what they have listed you see crazy micro level planning e.g. 8:00 - Walk to bus stop 8:15 - Ride bus to Kent st.=20 8:45 - Walk from Kent ST. buss stop to office 9:00 - Turn on office computer 9:00 - 11:30 - Do office work ... Unless you have some sort of memory issue or learning condition, planning at this level is largely pointless. This may seem extreme, but I see people do very similar fine grained task logging in projects as well. Planning, like effort estimating, is a skill and needs practice. All I am trying to convey is a warning against being overly ambitious or having overly high expectations regarding org mode and how/when it can be beneficial. While you can probably capture everything in your life in plain text org files, doing so may not actually help make your life easier. I believe you need to be judicious in what you map out as tasks and in what data you capture. Too much and there is a danger it all becomes white noise and you become a slave to the process. Our brains are amazing things which can handle a lot of complexity easily and at a fast rate - the interface is still faster and more powerful than org and we should use it to its maximum and apply org to augment it rather than replace it. Problem is, someone sees org mode for the first time and their blown away and suddenly can see how they can generate a comprehensive, concise and well mapped out process for everything they do. The pendulum swings to far the other way and suddenly, they now have an additional time consuming maintenance task which is now using time previously spent actually getting the job done. The other danger is of course that we become too dependent on the technology. We can see this happening now with information like phone numbers. Even only 20 years ago, most people would memorise and be able to recall many phone numbers. Recent surveys indicate most people don't even know the phone number of their spouse! Consider that for a second - if you lost your mobile phone, how many of the phone numbers of people close to you can you recall?=20