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[2001:44b8:31f2:bb00:842a:7361:87c7:2662]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id c14-20020a621c0e000000b0056bcb102e7bsm24967485pfc.68.2023.01.05.17.42.45 (version=TLS1_3 cipher=TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 bits=256/256); Thu, 05 Jan 2023 17:42:46 -0800 (PST) References: <8735g9wgtj.fsf@gmail.com> <87mteh4d0b.fsf@localhost> <87tu8puwlt.fsf@gmail.com> <87a6ah3zaq.fsf@localhost> <87y1y0od9e.fsf@gnu.org> <87czfcupve.fsf@gmail.com> <877d5km57w.fsf@localhost> <87o7yw11h8.fsf@gmail.com> <877cy5md6s.fsf@localhost> <86pmbwd797.fsf@gmail.com> <87cz7ubnxb.fsf_-_@gnu.org> <25525.23011.981273.299528@gargle.gargle.HOWL> <86zgaxykbb.fsf@gmail.com> <25526.55709.79325.674073@gargle.gargle.HOWL> <86v8llx9wy.fsf@gmail.com> <87y1qgu44r.fsf@t14.reltub.ca> User-agent: mu4e 1.9.11; emacs 29.0.60 From: Tim Cross To: Leo Butler Cc: "alain.cochard@unistra.fr" , "emacs-orgmode@gnu.org" Subject: Re: [TASK] Enhance Worg HTML styling Date: Fri, 06 Jan 2023 12:23:54 +1100 In-reply-to: <87y1qgu44r.fsf@t14.reltub.ca> Message-ID: <86r0w8xwtp.fsf@gmail.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Received-SPF: pass client-ip=2607:f8b0:4864:20::52e; envelope-from=theophilusx@gmail.com; helo=mail-pg1-x52e.google.com X-Spam_score_int: -20 X-Spam_score: -2.1 X-Spam_bar: -- X-Spam_report: (-2.1 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: emacs-orgmode@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "General discussions about Org-mode." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-orgmode-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org Sender: emacs-orgmode-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org X-Migadu-Country: US X-Migadu-Flow: FLOW_IN ARC-Seal: i=1; s=key1; d=yhetil.org; t=1672969423; a=rsa-sha256; cv=none; b=ZFvZHJH4QJtHWbzs4om8OfP1K9o08igyleUu3Av6zpb53TJPuLQ0H9aEFyITzMH3zkmBVs bPV1cKFFYSZ9eQ4/hK8FV0i3H9WgI4SSXOqCof1dxM9HqxdEdwwMsBuk50pDnpiTDjY6wA MmyuHhak2lfxnEemMKK86BP/rEz6G13zAezcolI68Osfm46eDcFKN+xLTu9HGhchnr9eg0 x/vnU23PuLBEgSshIDWZ7Y/PO64bSPlOzDJEZFFHNiJxAFu5M8eLZkaqcUCY8xEDIygcHA r84RzcW+YNUmMVwcCyHl6Np7O5aUS2PJOnYNMlwL0km8fdWvJ/mOjLBx0Mry2Q== ARC-Authentication-Results: i=1; aspmx1.migadu.com; dkim=pass header.d=gmail.com header.s=20210112 header.b=KIGerZtu; spf=pass (aspmx1.migadu.com: domain of "emacs-orgmode-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org" designates 209.51.188.17 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom="emacs-orgmode-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org"; dmarc=pass (policy=none) header.from=gmail.com ARC-Message-Signature: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=yhetil.org; s=key1; t=1672969423; h=from:from:sender:sender:reply-to:subject:subject:date:date: message-id:message-id:to:to:cc:cc:mime-version:mime-version: content-type:content-type:in-reply-to:in-reply-to: references:references:list-id:list-help:list-unsubscribe: list-subscribe:list-post:dkim-signature; bh=Whf/cCALlXNe42EEMEyV+JEFvH14T0FKS5n5Q1qn2gs=; b=r1+cQRniIEveaWDrsyOnOMZENKBYOUTOuCX0PSGwJPyyWWZuGbWCm8UgM0d5FgmL7jEN3M pfOoIAateqFmjVfzqKoVbsD4E1tc/u4f63RMHhLbOYPVrWVhMZAWj94a3HCvxrZmclTdXO 1rN5i7yv234StQEOVC2K2QK8dK7ln6oj9dfvHHaLxjEBZWSk+WNE9dpPtPzDreR9nkK4/5 +USQ+QmnLHSGvvSni4fQ0beAIVDVm6uAr3PMzvxGg38+Lplhpz4rqy4fKynUpSWUrnJct7 rERirDQqZ8D0Rbc1yzRRhrvpjyB3EXwjBCwMFahqMyDwfvkvVUtEZL3RGmaZrw== X-Spam-Score: -10.18 X-Migadu-Queue-Id: EA30B1FD6B Authentication-Results: aspmx1.migadu.com; dkim=pass header.d=gmail.com header.s=20210112 header.b=KIGerZtu; spf=pass (aspmx1.migadu.com: domain of "emacs-orgmode-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org" designates 209.51.188.17 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom="emacs-orgmode-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org"; dmarc=pass (policy=none) header.from=gmail.com X-Migadu-Scanner: scn0.migadu.com X-Migadu-Spam-Score: -10.18 X-TUID: 2OP51zfgkw2m Leo Butler writes: > On Fri, Jan 06 2023, Tim Cross wrote: > >> Alain.Cochard@unistra.fr writes: >> >>> Tim Cross writes on Thu 5 Jan 2023 09:43: >>> >>> > As a simple example, try increasing the font size and see what >>> > happens to the menus. Keep in mind that some users require a very >>> > large font (for example, I use a 26 or 28 pt font. >>> >>> OK, I understand. (Even with default font size, I hate that the table >>> of contents hides some parts of the text -- I had forgotten about >>> that.) >>> >>> > [...] There have also been numerous other issues (many have already >>> > been addressed) such as broken links, links to data which doesn't >>> > exist or has wrong MIME type [...] Perhaps even more unfortunate >>> > is that sometimes, you can come across some good information in the >>> > worg site, but finding that same information again at a latter date >>> > is often extremely challenging. >>> >>> But that's not "Org styling", right? Or am I confused about what >>> "styling" means? >>> >>> At any rate, I agree with your other examples, understand why the >>> styling (as I understand it) should be improved, and am no longer >>> worried about changes. Thank you very much for your time. >> >> It isn't just about the styling - that is just one aspect and the one I >> planned to start with. However, styling and presentation will also be >> part of providing better links/navigation, which I think is also >> necessary to make exploration and discovery easier and more consistent. >> . > > Can you give us an example/model of a site that does these things > better? I agree with your assessment, but feel that some kind of target > is needed. > > TIA, > Leo As Bastien said, small increments is likely the way to go. So, for an initial target, how about just having set of CSS styles which support different screen sizes and different font sizes - one where, unlike the current one, the page content is not obscured by the menus and navigation buttons. For an added bonus, a design which provides consistency and convenience which helps with both general browsing and locating specific information within the site would be good. As for an example site, I don't have anything specific in mind and have ideas taken from various sites. Examples are of little benefit IMO - it really just comes down to someone having the time to define a new style, apply it to a development site (likely also on sourcehut) and then get feedback. We don't need to over think this or get too bogged down in design - just go for functional and see what falls out the other end. One question I'm not sure about is whether it would be better to craft CSS from scratch or better to adopt a CSS framework (which is appropriately licensed) and use that. I tend to feel the latter would be better, but others may have different opinions.