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[2001:44b8:31f2:bb00:842a:7361:87c7:2662]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id c24-20020a63ef58000000b00412a708f38asm3897885pgk.35.2022.08.31.16.17.00 for (version=TLS1_3 cipher=TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 bits=256/256); Wed, 31 Aug 2022 16:17:01 -0700 (PDT) References: <20220831161348.GA2413557@itccanarias.org> User-agent: mu4e 1.9.0; emacs 29.0.50 From: Tim Cross To: emacs-orgmode@gnu.org Subject: Re: Manual Ordering and Dynamic Priority Date: Thu, 01 Sep 2022 07:42:39 +1000 In-reply-to: <20220831161348.GA2413557@itccanarias.org> Message-ID: <86o7w0q9zr.fsf@gmail.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Received-SPF: pass client-ip=2607:f8b0:4864:20::62c; envelope-from=theophilusx@gmail.com; helo=mail-pl1-x62c.google.com X-Spam_score_int: -20 X-Spam_score: -2.1 X-Spam_bar: -- X-Spam_report: (-2.1 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_SCC_BODY_TEXT_LINE=-0.01 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: emacs-orgmode@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "General discussions about Org-mode." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-orgmode-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org Sender: "Emacs-orgmode" X-Migadu-Flow: FLOW_IN X-Migadu-To: larch@yhetil.org X-Migadu-Country: US ARC-Message-Signature: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=yhetil.org; s=key1; t=1661987895; h=from:from:sender:sender:reply-to:subject:subject:date:date: message-id:message-id:to:to:cc:mime-version:mime-version: content-type:content-type:in-reply-to:in-reply-to: references:references:list-id:list-help:list-unsubscribe: list-subscribe:list-post:dkim-signature; bh=sLscIv3MTBDq+Dlu1C+0+bx6+3xfFEE700sYeV4aduw=; b=NfYbBMoOsJulhH2s1t2HlHAZiSu/Q8NdsSpEMyMROxFjIarQGtVw8V8ZEEJLoKiP3Kj3x4 bCRtxCKAWtdOqXv0v1L7YPVUwXqncvR5zgVT7X/WD3XcPFe640NNuKqj+4ZuRFox08+gjO 75w+TqG/sbubgLR1h39NpxfOsEDghuRkl6UHDD980IfJUD11aVxXU84jw1yLq84VjFm8Eu XZblF94vpkIfEtdyZJ0QRER4NS90a4Qso5QftFAc/3eNA9dpALrHr2lW9c2Buwj53GtHaP 9uHJ+x4MbbN6NkM9aH+lVj/7uK7nh2+FpbrwKUNvpKpL8R2VVrHvWZqILblvBg== ARC-Seal: i=1; s=key1; d=yhetil.org; t=1661987895; a=rsa-sha256; cv=none; b=T9RvFcPgVejpmesH8gYQ8ZcVRoYfweH1/bkYMBxuh2g9cL5uBiAiMdXwHZZaGHrAhFVKko xG9tBJqfX5e+ErnRXMf9kdn/nuuByyR6TXzFiviB1QG0VLZk+v8RkluLyey8VhTbKDH/c5 3i0F1uEi8XQpDpdem3f8uCA3dYinJTnINIzHgZFCwQtkEh1GsFwm/gHGEbmTlo9AG9tNp9 U8vVfkSqwRpcM5cHEV5sJ1llcRqZl3g3jHV1e0fKHW0ATEOjK/NciWcZymdzjnzw7W/BAs IFT+5RzIQudA0d5z9Ra1P54KM9/+1jLOIoQdUEcXrvDU6Q1gsTpYvrqmj2SxoA== ARC-Authentication-Results: i=1; aspmx1.migadu.com; dkim=pass header.d=gmail.com header.s=20210112 header.b=QGLehLR6; dmarc=pass (policy=none) header.from=gmail.com; spf=pass (aspmx1.migadu.com: domain of "emacs-orgmode-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org" designates 209.51.188.17 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom="emacs-orgmode-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org" X-Migadu-Spam-Score: -7.58 Authentication-Results: aspmx1.migadu.com; dkim=pass header.d=gmail.com header.s=20210112 header.b=QGLehLR6; dmarc=pass (policy=none) header.from=gmail.com; spf=pass (aspmx1.migadu.com: domain of "emacs-orgmode-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org" designates 209.51.188.17 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom="emacs-orgmode-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org" X-Migadu-Queue-Id: 5DB4610677 X-Spam-Score: -7.58 X-Migadu-Scanner: scn0.migadu.com X-TUID: j+CB5fciD6zf Eduardo Suarez writes: > I have lots of tasks (todos) and I would like to create a long backlog based on > my perceived priority. > > I was thinking to deal with them in the following way: > > - divide them in groups (categories or similar), > - manually sort priority for every group, > - mergesort groups, that is, start merging groups in pairs, and manually sort > for every step the union group until I have a large sorted backlog. > > For this to be practical, I would need an easy way to sort manually a group of > tasks and get them assigned automatically a priority (or any other hack) so > that priority ordering matches manual ordering. > > Any idea about how to get this done? > > If I had to implement it (I don't know lisp), I would assign a property (say > BACKLOG_PRIORITY) for every new task, with value the higher value of any other > tasks in agenda plus ten (for instance). Then I would query a subset of tasks > and sort them manually, swapping their values every time I swap their order. I > would also allow to assign a value directly based on free slots, not to bubble > the whole list for a low priority task. > > Does it sound over-engineered? Any idea? It does sound a bit like over-engineering to me :-) My first question would be "How long have you been using org-mode to manage your tasks?" My observation from being a long-term org-mode user (and speaking from personal experience), is that the first big mistake people tend to make is to over engineer their setup. I suspect many people, after first using org-mode, they get somewhat carried away with the possibilities. They immediately get caught up in this dream of having an organised world where all their tasks are captured, neat, organised, prioritised and chaos is under control. They start by defining a precise and well laid out plan for capturing tasks and managing them. Tasks are given priorities, effort estimates, there are capture templates for everything you can possibly think of and no matter what they are doing, they can open their agenda and immediately see what to do next, little thought or effort required. This approach suffers from two fundamental flaws - Life is by nature chaotic. You cannot eliminate the chaos. The best you can do is find ways to make dealing with the chaos less painful. - Life is about getting things done, not planning to get things done. Overly complex management of your tasks is very likely to result in more time spent managing the tasks than actually doing the tasks. My first recommendation for most people is use org with default settings for the first few months. The defaults are not a bad starting point and after a few months, you will know what the pain points are for your specific situation and can then start looking at how to address them. Be very careful about priorities. The problem is, priorities actually change faster than you might expect. I actually rarely use priorities as I find most of the time, they are not adding real benefit. I know what the priorities are. Only in extremely large or complex projects, particularly ones with complex dependencies, have I found priorities useful. The other point to note is that because you now have an efficient and quick way to gather task information, you will likely end up with a growing list of tasks in your backlog. The reality is, a far larger number of these tasks will never see the light of day than you may think. I find that very 6 months or so, I go through my backlog of tasks and move any which have not seen any progress for 12 months into a backlog archive. These tend to be ideas or tasks which in all honestly are never going to bubble up to the point of being acted on. This could be because priorities or requirements have changed, the ideas underlying the tasks needs more thought or is just a bad idea, the need for the task no longer relevant etc. Any time spent on prioritising, classifying or ordering these tasks is largely wasted effort. The other problem with priorities are they tend to only represent the urgency of a task and not the importance of that task. The danger is, if you only focus on urgency, you become reactive and less proactive. All your time is spent responding to urgency with little time allocated to implementing less urgent but important tasks which ironically, will often result in improvements and less urgent tasks. This can be avoided if you are disciplined and ensure you also give high priority to non-urgent, but important tasks. However, this can be hard to do, especially in a busy environment with lots of conflicting tasks. Tags can be a very useful mechanism for classifying tasks. However, the mistake people often make with tags is to create far too many different tags. You need to be disciplined with tags and keep them to a minimum. If you have too many, you will spend too much time trying to decide which tag to apply, will get inconsistency in your tagging and when it comes time to use the tags, you won't know which tag is best. Keep tags to as small a number as possible. For the first 6 - 12 months, my recommendation is to keep things as simple as possible. Your aim is to minimise the time you need to spend in planning and organising your tasks while also minimising the tasks which get missed, forgotten or don't get done in time. Your workflow needs to be making your life easier, not harder by imposing more things you have to do. Your looking for ways to help manage the chaos, not eliminate it and it needs to work in a chaotic environment with conflicting demands for your time and attention. After 6 - 12 months, review and identify the 5 most frustrating/time consuming/failing aspects of your org based workflow and see how they might be addressed using existing org mode facilities. Implement a solution and use it for 6 months before going through another review and refine process. You will be surprised how far you can get just using built-in org mode facilities. At some point, you will likely get to the point where some real org customisation is needed. However, you will also likely find very similar customisation has already been done by others whch you will be able to adapt. The key focus should always be in making org mode work for you and not the other way around. If you find your spending more time managing your tasks with org mode, your likely got it wrong. It has to make your life easier or there simply isn't any point to it regardless of how cool, clever or useful it may seem in theory.