From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mp11.migadu.com ([2001:41d0:2:bcc0::]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits)) by ms5.migadu.com with LMTPS id 2O3mG438OWNOIQAAbAwnHQ (envelope-from ) for ; Sun, 02 Oct 2022 23:03:09 +0200 Received: from aspmx1.migadu.com ([2001:41d0:2:bcc0::]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits)) by mp11.migadu.com with LMTPS id cFPLG438OWMLPgEA9RJhRA (envelope-from ) for ; Sun, 02 Oct 2022 23:03:09 +0200 Received: from lists.gnu.org (lists.gnu.org [209.51.188.17]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by aspmx1.migadu.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id CAE4FFBB1 for ; Sun, 2 Oct 2022 23:03:08 +0200 (CEST) Received: from localhost ([::1]:42798 helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1of679-0006tp-W6 for larch@yhetil.org; Sun, 02 Oct 2022 17:03:08 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:33588) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1of66X-0006ms-85 for emacs-orgmode@gnu.org; Sun, 02 Oct 2022 17:02:32 -0400 Received: from mail-pl1-x629.google.com ([2607:f8b0:4864:20::629]:35386) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_128_GCM_SHA256:128) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1of66Q-0002C0-AV for emacs-orgmode@gnu.org; Sun, 02 Oct 2022 17:02:24 -0400 Received: by mail-pl1-x629.google.com with SMTP id h10so5403895plb.2 for ; Sun, 02 Oct 2022 14:02:21 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20210112; h=mime-version:message-id:in-reply-to:date:subject:cc:to:from :user-agent:references:from:to:cc:subject:date; bh=DcYIeX+sKeooDdsn37sJprnJ9WVfo78Hku+Gqit57ck=; b=XGUv9hm67JcW2GpiCj9CszHe/barXeVLZVXlYr583+iX4bwVNdlgUR+eNwWfEx/zm9 ZKHnFXwBHngrARinlEcAF0dxspDMagZldUI+3628zX6vCIlHOK7YKgzSFK4w8YeJqoZo HAE/4gazOSp+c1kv7q1p3ZEUj9S6ndpKkV7Oc3N0tYrpRQjWFg7V478xOkgvTEG7MOcA Zb+HM2sdnPLyjkGbvL8PU0Eq9ZJ926zeFEpv0p2+OXnOoqlglLzcUe4MzWf7O8SlmNyg H6GDGi4HUqhv6sRnBnTi0ktzGV7emJNiT5QOt3//sA37vrJ77PKmqBRM6od4ooKDUf2T WzVg== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20210112; h=mime-version:message-id:in-reply-to:date:subject:cc:to:from :user-agent:references:x-gm-message-state:from:to:cc:subject:date; bh=DcYIeX+sKeooDdsn37sJprnJ9WVfo78Hku+Gqit57ck=; b=28jxQlfEqOy8/Yi6NTs4fi39cnMOqNIuSDJyfrLbWk4kNY7sh78rFJ16bzgR3TWDX9 oESwAGsnzhE4zmJ7g3y0RcGhIEgHNgiXs5EFWmUGKDE2QtMLR5bhE0V2lf8iXaAxAgj+ GB4cMTh+DUuTsYbGqhUWvPbvuNgZjZGeiinjtK/T8tUUpNsV5yXKzwnFS/6oeMCVcabS tGCJ7FcDxxeUz0imQyAWZxH8SDrf3grCmBAP70Z/qYfGJ2R5pXcJ8JAfyukjyXdIXkJg oK3F6dmwvcUbB3zxM9e+uu6NIgDD6ZT9p+P/Gf6NJ7ibaos+eCaseEtWi8AZOenyXJss ijOw== X-Gm-Message-State: ACrzQf1vEYesmIafDlemekzmuwkG1O6HKQoM8lk2ayPqQqm0csg/Zf4O TYMqhXAygGFJWECQY33vZums45KsUS8= X-Google-Smtp-Source: AMsMyM6sPkEO11NUC7oEAsFkuxx6c/YXCT8iQqKo0sA3Vqk/b0u6jh0BzcEppJgUIgDrRoBhYCDuaw== X-Received: by 2002:a17:90a:d151:b0:205:f2a4:f898 with SMTP id t17-20020a17090ad15100b00205f2a4f898mr9088417pjw.118.1664744540238; Sun, 02 Oct 2022 14:02:20 -0700 (PDT) Received: from dingbat (124-169-22-230.dyn.iinet.net.au. [124.169.22.230]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id k16-20020a170902ce1000b00176ca533ea0sm5703327plg.90.2022.10.02.14.02.18 (version=TLS1_3 cipher=TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 bits=256/256); Sun, 02 Oct 2022 14:02:19 -0700 (PDT) References: <87a66lpm5p.fsf@localhost> <8735cdpkiz.fsf@localhost> <87y1u5o1ko.fsf@localhost> <87a66k2j5y.fsf@tec.tecosaur.net> <7edd911f-b74-6521-634e-7f30acdb5fad@panix.com> <867d1nj1yn.fsf@gmail.com> <877d1n3ky0.fsf@tec.tecosaur.net> <86tu4ro11c.fsf@gmail.com> <87edvu95yr.fsf@localhost> <86pmfeo4os.fsf@gmail.com> <87pmfazhm5.fsf@localhost> User-agent: mu4e 1.9.0; emacs 29.0.50 From: Tim Cross To: Ihor Radchenko Cc: Timothy , Jude DaShiell , emacs-orgmode@gnu.org Subject: Re: [HELP] Help implementing org-lint/warnings buffer during export (was: Org HTML export accessibility (was: org exported pdf files)) Date: Mon, 03 Oct 2022 07:52:40 +1100 In-reply-to: <87pmfazhm5.fsf@localhost> Message-ID: <86k05iszvr.fsf@gmail.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Received-SPF: pass client-ip=2607:f8b0:4864:20::629; envelope-from=theophilusx@gmail.com; helo=mail-pl1-x629.google.com X-Spam_score_int: -20 X-Spam_score: -2.1 X-Spam_bar: -- X-Spam_report: (-2.1 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: emacs-orgmode@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "General discussions about Org-mode." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-orgmode-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org Sender: "Emacs-orgmode" X-Migadu-Flow: FLOW_IN X-Migadu-Country: US ARC-Message-Signature: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=yhetil.org; s=key1; t=1664744588; h=from:from:sender:sender:reply-to:subject:subject:date:date: message-id:message-id:to:to:cc:cc:mime-version:mime-version: content-type:content-type:in-reply-to:in-reply-to: references:references:list-id:list-help:list-unsubscribe: list-subscribe:list-post:dkim-signature; bh=DcYIeX+sKeooDdsn37sJprnJ9WVfo78Hku+Gqit57ck=; b=NIKUThqAgEuwa2imhGtAZoeX/Af6H4jj+TJ0cOcZJ9ffBAUg5RP/4C7pOl2rrBPfgRvxeW B08CPSRYi4N+Sb/c6T3LKvQ41d12E5xLLUdjCI+tDhDIzbHW8Dxk27ZAyFtaul1dlK0hNz vvaX9nIvIhzjd7DU/B4jwIjheEOX8vWnEBzcIHRcWnkn4v7xZzNNdhzwPHpwMWHXoKO/qP aNgwsh4yrm1LtU+y33X8/TxGFXcHGWcKYrJlSi9bIsustj5EJiMMBRhG/IMxZdRA8NlrdE jmvvu6t/05QaNXk0dgKmWw2b1W9d6zra1fZdoZuq1Y7mtEy69XjNBPiatgEXnw== ARC-Seal: i=1; s=key1; d=yhetil.org; t=1664744588; a=rsa-sha256; cv=none; b=O4T1IAZCYljcyIxUjU6AbDsCQ1jjgdGW2h6rgR/EGu7mgl2CZSHDmFphvbRTXa3LbqjNQP EVS8Ugf5f/eMlSqu+haWamHuaR4OXIC3yc5bpVC4e6Bs5FByYWqENhA4PPfP7nTV/z9pJT ewadCiHgKn6DpRVSz2U3t1/EGcgvXWKggWH5hwgEQYhJw8UU3Y5s91T54BZKSMF/aO5n7e 2mQluMmnm5on6GrEzwValoTRyiI8yR2GbIFKAILrkdMJTfGo7JX530pxCQhqLwQqmIRcr/ ltCbGoZxHIwu5hoafArTJO6DJlN3vXUEGJ8bdx9X6/kiqo/7H5Kvp0tXowePsw== ARC-Authentication-Results: i=1; aspmx1.migadu.com; dkim=pass header.d=gmail.com header.s=20210112 header.b=XGUv9hm6; dmarc=pass (policy=none) header.from=gmail.com; spf=pass (aspmx1.migadu.com: domain of "emacs-orgmode-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org" designates 209.51.188.17 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom="emacs-orgmode-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org" X-Migadu-Spam-Score: -4.34 Authentication-Results: aspmx1.migadu.com; dkim=pass header.d=gmail.com header.s=20210112 header.b=XGUv9hm6; dmarc=pass (policy=none) header.from=gmail.com; spf=pass (aspmx1.migadu.com: domain of "emacs-orgmode-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org" designates 209.51.188.17 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom="emacs-orgmode-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org" X-Migadu-Queue-Id: CAE4FFBB1 X-Spam-Score: -4.34 X-Migadu-Scanner: scn0.migadu.com X-TUID: RrLnmF06yE6O Ihor Radchenko writes: > Tim Cross writes: > >> From an org-mode perspective, the key things which need to be maintained >> (and which perhaps we could make even easier or possibly have >> 'defaults') is the ability to add the alt attribute to any non-text >> element. For example, images, videos, sound files etc. All such content >> should always have some text describing the 'element'. However, it is >> also important to be able to not have an alt tag in some situations (for >> example, when using images as 'spacers' for formatting etc, we don't >> want an alt tag. Things to be aware of are things like using single >> characters or symbols (e.g. < and > for previous/next) or using unicode >> and other symbols whose meaning/purpose may seem very obvious when >> viewed, but is less so when 'spoken'. >> >> From an authoring perspective, it probably would be good if org mode was >> able to alert the user to content which lacks an alt attribute but which >> probably should have one e.g. an image with no caption, a link to a >> video/audio file etc. > > This sounds like a good idea. > > Org currently attempts to be slightly helpful by indicating, for > example, LaTeX compilation warnings. However, it is just done by writing > a simple message in the echo area. > > What would be more useful is the kind of buffer displayed by org-lint, > but instead used during export: > - If there are any export issues (LaTeX errors/warnings) they can appear > in the buffer > - If there are any stylistic issues (like lack of alt attributes during > html export), they can also appear > > Ideally, we should be able to jump directly to the line containing > error. > > org-lint code could be used as a base, but otherwise we need to > implement something generic way to check style/export warnings on > per-backend basis. > > This is probably something we need to do before we dive into the > accessibility specifics. AFAIU from the Tim's reply, many of the > accessibility guidelines may need to be decided by the document author. > Tim, let me know if I am wrong and some of the accessible tagging must > be done unconditionally. > > I am marking this as a help request. > > Let me know what you think. I had a very similar idea wrt lint like functionality to alert user to possible 'stylistic' and/or other problems in exported content. Adding accessibility to that would then be the next step. I'm very much against enforcing standards. Experience has taught me that these sorts of thing change more frequently then you might expect. Also, like the old sayings go "every rule has an exception" "you need to know the rules before you can break them", etc. Far better to provide the tools which can assist the author, but avoid enforcing some particular view/opinion. We would probably want to make the linting rules dynamic - allowing easy add/removal/update of rules. People could then possibly use it to also check for local policy/standard requirements by adding their own.