Simplifying the weekly agenda a tiny bit, howto?

Simplifying the weekly agenda a tiny bit, howto?

[François Pinard]

Hi, Org friends.  Here is an (edited) copy of my weekly agenda:


Week-agenda (W29):
Lundi      15 Juillet 2013 W29
Mardi      16 Juillet 2013
Mercredi   17 Juillet 2013
Jeudi      18 Juillet 2013
  notes:      In   1 d.:  TODO *Some meeting
  Automobile: In   4 d.:  TODO Another thing
  [...]
Vendredi   19 Juillet 2013
  notes:      20:30...... Deadline:   TODO *Some meeting
Samedi     20 Juillet 2013
Dimanche   21 Juillet 2013
  [...]


The Vendredi (Friday) lines is clearly shown in red (yet in the quote
above, it is likely shown in black and white!).  So the Jeudi (Thursday)
reference to the same activity is superfluous to me.  I wonder if there
is a (simple) way to inhibit, in a weekly agenda, any announced activity
which appears later down in the same agenda.

François

Re: Simplifying the weekly agenda a tiny bit, howto?

[Eric Abrahamsen]

François Pinard <pinard@iro.umontreal.ca> writes:

> Hi, Org friends.  Here is an (edited) copy of my weekly agenda:
>
>
> Week-agenda (W29):
> Lundi      15 Juillet 2013 W29
> Mardi      16 Juillet 2013
> Mercredi   17 Juillet 2013
> Jeudi      18 Juillet 2013
>   notes:      In   1 d.:  TODO *Some meeting
>   Automobile: In   4 d.:  TODO Another thing
>   [...]
> Vendredi   19 Juillet 2013
>   notes:      20:30...... Deadline:   TODO *Some meeting
> Samedi     20 Juillet 2013
> Dimanche   21 Juillet 2013
>   [...]
>
>
> The Vendredi (Friday) lines is clearly shown in red (yet in the quote
> above, it is likely shown in black and white!).  So the Jeudi (Thursday)
> reference to the same activity is superfluous to me.  I wonder if there
> is a (simple) way to inhibit, in a weekly agenda, any announced activity
> which appears later down in the same agenda.
>
> François

First of all, if your event is a meeting, it should only be timestamped,
not deadlined or scheduled. Then it will just show up where it's
supposed to, and not before (or after). It probably shouldn't even be a
TODO.

Otherwise, scheduled TODOs show up on their schedule, and deadlined
TODOs show up on their deadline, and also today's agenda, if you're
coming up on the deadline. There are a host of variables that change how
a TODO is displayed depending on whether it has a
schedule/deadline/timestamp, or one and not the others, or `how close
you are to it, etc. Check out variables starting org-agenda-skip-*,
org-agenda-ignore-*, org-agenda-include-*, org-deadline-*,
org-scheduled-*, there are plenty of ways of screening out TODOs that
you don't want to see until you're supposed to see them.

Hope that helps,
Eric

Re: Simplifying the weekly agenda a tiny bit, howto?

[François Pinard]

Eric Abrahamsen <eric@ericabrahamsen.net> writes:

> First of all, if your event is a meeting, it should only be
> timestamped, not deadlined or scheduled.  Then it will just show up
> where it's supposed to, and not before (or after).

How do I get it quickly rescheduled then, when it is a regular activity?
I find fairly convenient using "t d" to push an activity at its next
slot in the future.  Could I do something equivalent with mere time
stamps?

> It probably shouldn't even be a TODO.  Otherwise, scheduled TODOs show
> up on their schedule, and deadlined TODOs show up on their deadline,
> and also today's agenda, if you're coming up on the deadline.

There are many Org commands able to find, display and otherwise handle
TODOs.  If I stop using such keywords, wouldn't I give up the tools?
Maybe there are ways to reformulate them all using other commands, but
at fist, it would require some searching, and acquiring new habits,
presuming that there are alternative ways for all such tools.

> There are a host of variables [...]  Check out variables starting
> org-agenda-skip-*, org-agenda-ignore-*, org-agenda-include-*,
> org-deadline-*, org-scheduled-* [...] Hope that helps,

Undoubtedly :-).  Thanks!

François

Re: Simplifying the weekly agenda a tiny bit, howto?

[Richard Lawrence]

François Pinard <pinard@iro.umontreal.ca> writes:

> Eric Abrahamsen <eric@ericabrahamsen.net> writes:
>
>> First of all, if your event is a meeting, it should only be
>> timestamped, not deadlined or scheduled.  Then it will just show up
>> where it's supposed to, and not before (or after).
>
> How do I get it quickly rescheduled then, when it is a regular activity?
> I find fairly convenient using "t d" to push an activity at its next
> slot in the future.  Could I do something equivalent with mere time
> stamps?

If it's a regular activity, you can use a repeater in the timestamp, like:

* Weekly meeting
  <2013-07-18 Thu 15:00 +1w>

or if you need something more complicated, you can use the diary sexp
functions, like:

* 22:00-23:00 The nerd meeting on every 2nd Thursday of the month
  <%%(diary-float t 4 2)>

* Class every Tuesday and Thursday in the Spring 2013 semester 12:30PM-2PM
  <%%(org-class 2013 1 22 2013 5 10 2)>
  <%%(org-class 2013 1 22 2013 5 10 4)>

For non-regular meetings, I have a capture template that allows me to
easily enter them; maybe this is a good option for you if you regularly
need to schedule meetings, but at times that you can't predict before
you actually enter them.

>> It probably shouldn't even be a TODO.  Otherwise, scheduled TODOs show
>> up on their schedule, and deadlined TODOs show up on their deadline,
>> and also today's agenda, if you're coming up on the deadline.
>
> There are many Org commands able to find, display and otherwise handle
> TODOs.  If I stop using such keywords, wouldn't I give up the tools?

Maybe.  Which tools do you use for TODOs that you also apply to
meetings?

Apart from the schedule-based agenda view, if you find it convenient to
e.g. create a list of all your upcoming meetings, you can do things like
tag all your meetings with a :meeting: or :appointment: tag, and then
use tag searches and/or custom agenda views to identify them, sort them
by timestamp, etc.

Hope that's helpful!

Best,
Richar

Re: Simplifying the weekly agenda a tiny bit, howto?

[Eric Abrahamsen]

François Pinard <pinard@iro.umontreal.ca> writes:

> Eric Abrahamsen <eric@ericabrahamsen.net> writes:
>
>> First of all, if your event is a meeting, it should only be
>> timestamped, not deadlined or scheduled.  Then it will just show up
>> where it's supposed to, and not before (or after).
>
> How do I get it quickly rescheduled then, when it is a regular activity?
> I find fairly convenient using "t d" to push an activity at its next
> slot in the future.  Could I do something equivalent with mere time
> stamps?

Hmm, I hadn't tried that with repeating events. There are a pile of
commands for shifting timestamps/scheduled/deadline from the Agenda
(either ">", or variously-prefixed versions of "S-<right>" and
"S-<left>". Changing the date/time of any event applies the same
relative shift to all the events, which might not be what you want, but
then that would also be the case if you're using deadlines to represent
meetings.

If "t d" is your current solution, you're not actually re-scheduling
meetings, just canceling them, right? It's true there's not a lot of
flexibility in plain old repeating timestamps. Maybe use a SCHEDULED tag
instead of DEADLINE (which makes a little more semantic sense, and also
doesn't produce coming-up warnings), or else use
'org-clone-subtree-with-time-shift' to just create a whole new heading
for each meeting, with timestamps that can be adjusted individually.

>> It probably shouldn't even be a TODO.  Otherwise, scheduled TODOs show
>> up on their schedule, and deadlined TODOs show up on their deadline,
>> and also today's agenda, if you're coming up on the deadline.
>
> There are many Org commands able to find, display and otherwise handle
> TODOs.  If I stop using such keywords, wouldn't I give up the tools?
> Maybe there are ways to reformulate them all using other commands, but
> at fist, it would require some searching, and acquiring new habits,
> presuming that there are alternative ways for all such tools.

It does take a bit of fooling to make the best use of the tools
available... In this case I'd say Richard's right: tags are what you
should be using. They're just as easy to search for as TODOs, and
they're considerably more flexible: you can make them up on the fly, or
nest them in tag groups. The key nature of the TODO -- that you can
shift it among several linked states -- isn't really what you need here.

>> There are a host of variables [...]  Check out variables starting
>> org-agenda-skip-*, org-agenda-ignore-*, org-agenda-include-*,
>> org-deadline-*, org-scheduled-* [...] Hope that helps,
>
> Undoubtedly :-).  Thanks!
>
> François

Re: Simplifying the weekly agenda a tiny bit, howto?

[François Pinard]

Eric Abrahamsen <eric@ericabrahamsen.net> writes:

>> How do I get it quickly rescheduled then, when it is a regular activity?
>> I find fairly convenient using "t d" to push an activity at its next
>> slot in the future.  Could I do something equivalent with mere time
>> stamps?

> Hmm, I hadn't tried that with repeating events.

I stole a few minutes this morning to make tries.  Unless there are
operator errors :-), I got the impression that "t d" over a simple time
stamp with a repeating part dynamically turns in into a TODO entry,
which would defeat the purpose of removing TODO.  But, and this is where
I'm still under the effect of surprise and some incredulity, it seems
that I do not even have to use "t d", the repeating nature of the time
stamp being automatically taken into account while computing the agenda.

In any case, I decided to follow your advice and see where it brings me:
I removed the TODO keyword ans scheduling clauses the most I could, and
merely doing that yields a cleaner agenda (cleaner by my own criteria,
taste varies of course).

> There are a pile of commands for shifting
> timestamps/scheduled/deadline

Which I often use.  The annoyance of doing explicit shifting is that I
have to look at the repeater to decide the shifting amount.  I much
prefer if it could be automatic, not requiring human scrutiny each time.

> If "t d" is your current solution, you're not actually re-scheduling
> meetings, just canceling them, right?

Well, Org turns TODO into DONE.  But if there is a repeating clause in
the time stamp, the time stamp is advanced appropriately and the DONE
gets immediately turned back into TODO again, all by magic.

> [...] or else use 'org-clone-subtree-with-time-shift' to just create a
> whole new heading for each meeting, with timestamps that can be
> adjusted individually.

Oh!  I found this command a bit polluting, enough to avoid it until now.
Maybe I did not get how it could genuinely serve me?  I do not feel the
need yet! :-)

>> There are many Org commands able to find, display and otherwise handle
>> TODOs.  If I stop using such keywords, wouldn't I give up the tools?

> It does take a bit of fooling to make the best use of the tools
> available...

I'll try avoiding TODO in most cases, finding my way around without them
and developing new habits as needed.  I'll see where it will bring me...

Thanks to you, and Richard as well, for the feedback!

François

Re: Simplifying the weekly agenda a tiny bit, howto?

[François Pinard]

Richard Lawrence <richard.lawrence@berkeley.edu> writes:

> If it's a regular activity, you can use a repeater in the timestamp, like:

> * Weekly meeting
>   <2013-07-18 Thu 15:00 +1w>

Hi, Richard.  I also noticed I may even write:

  * Weekly meeting <2013-07-18 Thu 15:00 +1w>

and the time stamp gets automatically hidden in the agenda.  Nice! :-)

> For non-regular meetings, I have a capture template that allows me to
> easily enter them;

Same here!

> you can do things like tag all your meetings with a :meeting: or
> :appointment: tag [...]

I tried that too for a long while, tagging meeting and duties according
to where I am, travelling between customers, and later understood that I
could go without tags and still be happy, and even happier.

The real truth is that I'm not much comfortable with the tag approach,
just not in Org context, but in general.  I once (a that has been quite
a long "once") tried Delicious, to found out that proper maintenance of
tags requires a lot of energy when the collection grows significantly.
The feeling of adding a tag and forgetting an item gives an impression
of immediate speed, but one has to pay for it sooner or later, so all
totaled, I now think I'm better to sort out information immediately
where it should land in some hierarchical structure, and learn to do
that efficiently, than to go the tag way.

I do use tags with Org, but in small and specific ways; I try to avoid
them otherwise.

> Hope that's helpful!

Surely.  Exchange of ideas and methods with nice and spekable people is
always helpful, would it be only for the pleasure it gives!

Keep happy!

François

Re: Simplifying the weekly agenda a tiny bit, howto?

[Samuel Loury]

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Hi,
François Pinard <pinard@iro.umontreal.ca> writes:

>> There are a pile of commands for shifting
>> timestamps/scheduled/deadline
>
> Which I often use.  The annoyance of doing explicit shifting is that I
> have to look at the repeater to decide the shifting amount.  I much
> prefer if it could be automatic, not requiring human scrutiny each time.

What about providing a new command to shift the timestamp with the step
being the shifting amount? The command could do exactly the same thing
as what is done when you close the repeated TODO task, except for the
TODO -> DONE -> TODO transition.

Would that command fulfil your need?

-- 
Konubinix
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