From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 From: Nick Dokos Subject: Re: [ANN] BREAKING CHANGE -- removing #+BABEL file-wide property lines Date: Tue, 01 Nov 2011 10:26:16 -0400 Message-ID: <8627.1320157576@alphaville.dokosmarshall.org> References: <87pqhrih3s.fsf@gmail.com> <30891.1319141196@alphaville.dokosmarshall.org> <87fwinifqu.fsf@gmail.com> <32184.1319143892@alphaville.dokosmarshall.org> <87zkgvgxe7.fsf@gmail.com> <1405.1319147324@alphaville.dokosmarshall.org> <87zkgvfhra.fsf@gmail.com> <2127.1319148505@alphaville.dokosmarshall.org> <87vcrjfgt1.fsf@gmail.com> <80sjmmvm60.fsf@somewhere.org> <4EA129DB.4070006@christianmoe.com> <8762ji5jr6.fsf@gmail.com> <4EA1D4F9.5010302@christianmoe.com> <4ea1de9c.67b4ec0a.553d.122a@mx.google.com> <87aa8t10np.fsf@gmail.com> <4ea5a95b.059dec0a.606e.0c92@mx.google.com> <874nypkn6y.fsf@gmail.com> <87obwwkia5.fsf@gmail.com> <87boswk4vj.fsf@gmail.com> Reply-To: nicholas.dokos@hp.com Return-path: Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([140.186.70.92]:58561) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1RLFeD-0002sy-R2 for emacs-orgmode@gnu.org; Tue, 01 Nov 2011 10:49:11 -0400 Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1RLFeB-0001h4-WA for emacs-orgmode@gnu.org; Tue, 01 Nov 2011 10:49:05 -0400 Received: from g4t0016.houston.hp.com ([15.201.24.19]:18644) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1RLFeB-0001gH-Qr for emacs-orgmode@gnu.org; Tue, 01 Nov 2011 10:49:03 -0400 In-Reply-To: Message from Eric Schulte of "Mon, 31 Oct 2011 19:28:48 MDT." <87boswk4vj.fsf@gmail.com> List-Id: "General discussions about Org-mode." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-orgmode-bounces+geo-emacs-orgmode=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Sender: emacs-orgmode-bounces+geo-emacs-orgmode=m.gmane.org@gnu.org To: Eric Schulte Cc: nicholas.dokos@hp.com, emacs-orgmode@gnu.org Eric Schulte wrote: > My concerns with respect to a property drawer solution are two fold. > > 1) In the same way that #+PROPERTY: assumes its value will live on a > single line, property drawers assume that their values will live on a > single line. I don't see how it will be easier to fold multi-line > properties into drawers than outside of drawers. > > 2) It is not possible to specify file-wide properties with drawers, > unlike with property lines. > > Thanks -- Eric > I felt uneasy about #+begin_property, but I could not articulate my unease until first Nicolas and then Samuel expressed some of their concerns. But it seemed to me from the beginning that properties were *not* the right fit for babel whole-file args and I'm more convinced than ever that this is the *wrong* direction: it conflates different concepts and it forces changes in a well established area in order to satisfy the concerns of the other area. Can we please back off this path? The changes are big, they affect users' everyday work and it is not clear where they are going to end up. Let's revert the changes to master, establish a branch, and do all this experimentation in a branch. When it is thoroughly cooked to most people's satisfaction, it can be merged into master. That way, people can continue their daily work, without having to worry about changing their files to satisfy the new changes. Git provided exceptionally flexible branching: let's use it. My two cents, Nick > Samuel Wales writes: > > > Hi Eric, > > > > Properties can be specified in the properties drawer. But > > multiple-line ones cannot at present (at least not without serializing the way > > multiple-line macros are serialized). > > > > Therefore you propose new syntax for multiple-line properties. > > > > I propose that allowing the properties drawer to handle multiple-line > > properties might have 3 advantages over adding block syntax. > > > > 1: If you want a single-line property, you have a choice. If you want > > a multiple-line > > property, you have to use a block. That seems inconsistent. > > > > 2: Some people would probably have use for multiple-line properties, such > > as in org-contacts. Doesn't have to be Babel. People are used to the > > properties drawer. Also, external parsers are. > > > > 3: Nic objects to blocks without discussing them first. > > > > Perhaps upgrading properties drawer will satisfy that objection /and/ be > > consistent /and/ allow further uses in Org. > > > > This all presumes we're sticking with properties for Babel. > > > > Samuel > > > > -- > > The Kafka Pandemic: http://thekafkapandemic.blogspot.com > > === > > Bigotry against people with serious diseases is still bigotry. > > -- > Eric Schulte > http://cs.unm.edu/~eschulte/ >