From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 From: Marco Wahl Subject: Re: [RFC] Document level property drawer Date: Sat, 01 Feb 2020 20:59:25 +0100 Message-ID: <84blqigjtu.fsf@gmail.com> References: <87eezxrcwv.fsf@alphapapa.net> <84tv8tjywm.fsf@gmail.com> <87k19ovdxn.fsf@gmail.com> <847e1vf2ic.fsf@gmail.com> <87lfq9gmk3.fsf@gmail.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Return-path: Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:39420) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1ixyvT-0004dE-EX for emacs-orgmode@gnu.org; Sat, 01 Feb 2020 14:59:32 -0500 Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1ixyvS-0003Um-3x for emacs-orgmode@gnu.org; Sat, 01 Feb 2020 14:59:31 -0500 Received: from mail-wm1-x335.google.com ([2a00:1450:4864:20::335]:33926) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.0:RSA_AES_128_CBC_SHA1:16) (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1ixyvR-0003Ss-U1 for emacs-orgmode@gnu.org; Sat, 01 Feb 2020 14:59:30 -0500 Received: by mail-wm1-x335.google.com with SMTP id s144so11309382wme.1 for ; Sat, 01 Feb 2020 11:59:28 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: <87lfq9gmk3.fsf@gmail.com> (Sebastian Miele's message of "Wed, 15 Jan 2020 08:18:20 +0000") List-Id: "General discussions about Org-mode." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-orgmode-bounces+geo-emacs-orgmode=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Sender: "Emacs-orgmode" To: emacs-orgmode@gnu.org >> Sebastian Miele writes: >>> I would like to be able to make a clear distinction between properties >>> that are visible by default and properties that are not. Maybe it would >>> be possible to allow some #+.. syntax following headings for subtree >>> properties that are visible by default. A requirement could be made that >>> such property specifications always have to be followed by a property >>> drawer, even if that is empty. Then everything #+.. that is before the >>> property drawer would belong to the heading/subtree, and everything #+.. >>> that follows the drawer would be treated as it is until now. >>> >>> Please tell me if I missed something and Org is already capable of >>> something like that. If not, are there others who would like >>> visible-by-default property specifications for headings/subtrees in >>> addition to invisible-by-default property specifications in drawers, >>> too? >> >> I don't think Org is capable of this out of the box right now. Further >> I don't feel the need for a visible-by-default property, but that's just >> me. > > After a few more months of living without that feature I must say that I > basically live perfectly well without that, too. I just do not define > source block header args in property drawers. It gets a bit verbose at > times. But not to the degree of being painful. Sounds good to me. >>> Finally, I would like to state an opinion: If there is >>> visible-by-default (by #+..) and invisible-by-default (by drawers) >>> syntax for headings/subtrees, including level 0, it may be viable to >>> require them to be disjoint for each heading/subtree. Most probably it >>> would be good practice, anyway. And the precedence question raised >>> previously in this thread would be eliminated. >> >> I may not feel the need for the visible/invisible-by-default properties >> but actually I like the idea of #+ properties parallel to the property >> drawers as visible by default properties. But since the #+ properties >> may appear anywhere in the Org file and affect the whole file it would >> be difficult or even impossible to give them reliable meaning for >> subtrees AFAICS. > > In the meantime I had a look into worg/dev/org-syntax.org. From the > document: "Property drawers are a special type of drawer containing > properties attached to a headline. They are located right after a > headline and its planning information." Thanks for the quote. > So, currently, #+ properties may not appear between a heading and a > property drawer. At least not without turning the property drawer into a > non-special drawer. So, in principle, it would be possible to change the > syntax of Org to allow #+ properties between headings and (possibly > empty) property drawers in order to denote visible-by-default > properties attached to a heading. Sounds true AFAICS. > Moreover, this change probably would introduce very little to no > backwards incompatibility. With the change it would not be possible to > turn property drawers into non-special drawers by putting a #+ property > before them. Now it is possible to sort of uncomment property drawers by > putting #+ properties before them. This "feature" probably is hardly > used, if at all. I also think this is very corner case-y. All in all I think your idea is good. But the masses did not scream for that change so I think your idea is something for a wishlist to wait for further discussion. Best regards, -- Marco