From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mp11.migadu.com ([2001:41d0:2:bcc0::]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits)) by ms5.migadu.com with LMTPS id 4J9BNAUjk2OjFAAAbAwnHQ (envelope-from ) for ; Fri, 09 Dec 2022 12:59:01 +0100 Received: from aspmx1.migadu.com ([2001:41d0:2:bcc0::]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits)) by mp11.migadu.com with LMTPS id ADVLNAUjk2O0pgAA9RJhRA (envelope-from ) for ; Fri, 09 Dec 2022 12:59:01 +0100 Received: from lists.gnu.org (lists.gnu.org [209.51.188.17]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by aspmx1.migadu.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 9CA3647C6A for ; Fri, 9 Dec 2022 12:59:01 +0100 (CET) Received: from localhost ([::1] helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1p3c0x-0006Au-6h; Fri, 09 Dec 2022 06:58:03 -0500 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1p3c0o-0006A1-Nq for emacs-orgmode@gnu.org; Fri, 09 Dec 2022 06:57:54 -0500 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::e]) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1p3c0m-0001rX-OW; Fri, 09 Dec 2022 06:57:53 -0500 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gnu.org; s=fencepost-gnu-org; h=References:Subject:In-Reply-To:To:From:Date: mime-version; bh=7xRR4AdD4XEKfi30XfxSQ2VDgY4pcJGnoYttGEYh1g8=; b=nX8fUbreSU1t 72llQPNMoWyb1WytPR0HPFLCW1b/d+FKagAzUUF+22kCjzj/czukt6SbqUGetBHt+HK1bNQgqoT0P Q1iSprHOo3E+GR7VUt5HRAC+AM3FQsJfzMlTT0sOaitrS6Q0PHWtVXReNPJAj9PoS+keCripAzb8G 3QlBFo9paGHQEREE5oJ/re8pwZF85VuBc0uzTTYFlkary5eNUmN3KDU6p/fbLNmGe0LMS7B2IogJM 84Z2sYNe/9LBiG8C3YOUzlsU9ADNQUEIYYDdBtNhrq51B+Ku9NJetXFLyEoRXX3A/xDSN6DFH0B+R ObxK78oBJjUEduA7KSAr2Q==; Received: from [87.69.77.57] (helo=home-c4e4a596f7) by fencepost.gnu.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1p3c0h-0004Q4-Ct; Fri, 09 Dec 2022 06:57:48 -0500 Date: Fri, 09 Dec 2022 13:57:40 +0200 Message-Id: <83359o23ij.fsf@gnu.org> From: Eli Zaretskii To: David Masterson Cc: michel@schi.nz, emacs-orgmode@gnu.org, 59882@debbugs.gnu.org In-Reply-To: (message from David Masterson on Thu, 08 Dec 2022 23:43:05 -0800) Subject: Re: bug#59882: Multiple versions of Org in load-path problem References: <87tu27jq7h.fsf@localhost> <87k032nyok.fsf@localhost> <39a5810d-75bc-4ddb-8722-703f762ed4de@app.fastmail.com> <835yel11x8.fsf@gnu.org> X-BeenThere: emacs-orgmode@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "General discussions about Org-mode." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-orgmode-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org Sender: emacs-orgmode-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org X-Migadu-Flow: FLOW_IN X-Migadu-Country: US ARC-Message-Signature: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=yhetil.org; s=key1; t=1670587141; h=from:from:sender:sender:reply-to:subject:subject:date:date: message-id:message-id:to:to:cc:cc:in-reply-to:in-reply-to: references:references:list-id:list-help:list-unsubscribe: list-subscribe:list-post:dkim-signature; bh=7xRR4AdD4XEKfi30XfxSQ2VDgY4pcJGnoYttGEYh1g8=; b=M2YkmOw27q6CZDEyxfPwuMCQmXpvNVOhuYop3RqejEQVJlKIBg6rvq9ipkaMue5ysnYNj/ zG4j633qzbEgi4IBVenSa1/anA6DM3CVCjoJFgd3GSRrTtibQHkPyikBDFbPXXrC2YqmFd rZCYyJiwALBANiigNwPWBSbROpT59CNryKIrr3J+eLZCscgQ1jgvP+o+mFVUqU5BtCU9cY wgUwsDBKQQq0Zae8Yq0MTsnJmrf+0pqdcU2YQwTccorHceqUbwPgIO65KiIC9l25xC3FQs ShaXcgYhwq8jPXgi4MFdPQ4dp5Wqf/zT5nFmzqnIb72bCayvbW8+oWqkM+xgoA== ARC-Seal: i=1; s=key1; d=yhetil.org; t=1670587141; a=rsa-sha256; cv=none; b=RIk+3FOeTzgIgHN4ndmEMQtQQ+s/3Y8alXqU/zJgR+hAfSsd1Qz/tzwAFmZ3eO8kOnKKhO p5DjvfIvEr4xQ3k+wKlG2J/JVMjI76VDy+OfE8/fziEoVW3lHcJU4zyHxuqIqlSWoFDkvo GOzFOItdCpc2+hWF81xpL90CcrV1B3d9m36+qvSFzhNbxeQz4xjQugvNxOmljdOqjxkeFm Ku7Fjf5elsUsKhUFlewqUq9wx09BSZDSMg7H/mBndl1SZEQlIqLLJA3UXtcYoQkqX099eZ gF+YxWZ9ru21ymHbmiBCi5cViPppmomXX/nqo5EnsawFXapnZd+722rjlIUGbg== ARC-Authentication-Results: i=1; aspmx1.migadu.com; dkim=pass header.d=gnu.org header.s=fencepost-gnu-org header.b=nX8fUbre; dmarc=pass (policy=none) header.from=gnu.org; spf=pass (aspmx1.migadu.com: domain of "emacs-orgmode-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org" designates 209.51.188.17 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom="emacs-orgmode-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org" X-Migadu-Spam-Score: -3.64 Authentication-Results: aspmx1.migadu.com; dkim=pass header.d=gnu.org header.s=fencepost-gnu-org header.b=nX8fUbre; dmarc=pass (policy=none) header.from=gnu.org; spf=pass (aspmx1.migadu.com: domain of "emacs-orgmode-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org" designates 209.51.188.17 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom="emacs-orgmode-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org" X-Migadu-Queue-Id: 9CA3647C6A X-Spam-Score: -3.64 X-Migadu-Scanner: scn1.migadu.com X-TUID: sVIlYuemEUNr > From: David Masterson > Cc: michel@schi.nz, emacs-orgmode@gnu.org, 59882@debbugs.gnu.org > Date: Thu, 08 Dec 2022 23:43:05 -0800 > > Eli Zaretskii writes: > > >> So, 'describe-variable' on org-version causes Org to be loaded?!? > > > > Why is it so surprising? Is this the first time you see that a Help > > command loads something to do its job? > > Yes, it is surprising. How did Emacs know to load Org to find > org-version? I didn't request it to by this action. Or did it do a > package-activate-all (or similar) to ensure that everything was loaded? > That would be overkill. Sometimes the best answer is 'nil'. I don't think Emacs does package-activate-all. But Help commands frequently load packages to provide the documentation of the symbols you ask about. If this is surprising, then I suggest to get used to it.