From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mp10.migadu.com ([2001:41d0:2:4a6f::]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits)) by ms5.migadu.com with LMTPS id yKQoC/jImWOhjQAAbAwnHQ (envelope-from ) for ; Wed, 14 Dec 2022 14:00:40 +0100 Received: from aspmx1.migadu.com ([2001:41d0:2:4a6f::]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits)) by mp10.migadu.com with LMTPS id 8KhICvjImWPkdAEAG6o9tA (envelope-from ) for ; Wed, 14 Dec 2022 14:00:40 +0100 Received: from lists.gnu.org (lists.gnu.org [209.51.188.17]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by aspmx1.migadu.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 7F935E5C3 for ; Wed, 14 Dec 2022 14:00:39 +0100 (CET) Received: from localhost ([::1] helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1p5RMb-0001LT-6t; Wed, 14 Dec 2022 07:59:57 -0500 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1p5RMZ-0001K4-EZ for emacs-orgmode@gnu.org; Wed, 14 Dec 2022 07:59:55 -0500 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::e]) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1p5RMY-0000Ya-Dy; Wed, 14 Dec 2022 07:59:54 -0500 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gnu.org; s=fencepost-gnu-org; h=References:Subject:In-Reply-To:To:From:Date: mime-version; bh=eaedBL0dDVZaLly6EwNHAUf0uD6bdk4MbUi2fyHjTQs=; b=OllkgFQVEdWX 7w2n/Aa3cO62XpeXyADPN/1Gjbk5uYJLTsiIDy7RadmfCjoTAWcGyuMlN2Z7L49DqDf7SURAQSZY/ mMJr8wwJFNwuPIw2QDoufqj7WEKA9/G+ZFY24wxzz0QXJBPcEhnoV3GvxuAjOwBsK+jOOQ+6592s0 OH2yDuIyHBujsxHd+6KvpA048ESetUQLy2VpFxX+8f/dlYRULQcXC5ulEq+fDj083vWV6ERmHQiml 5ZfKKijkUlMMbz27IddaQUQh/ypwi2g/nq5knnF+IeR6tw2t1hqk/yyhtGYLnqH+YyW75YBRfuXR9 T0MpfJPPpn2unpSzM+zymA==; Received: from [87.69.77.57] (helo=home-c4e4a596f7) by fencepost.gnu.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1p5RMX-0007Ql-UK; Wed, 14 Dec 2022 07:59:54 -0500 Date: Wed, 14 Dec 2022 14:59:50 +0200 Message-Id: <83359innsp.fsf@gnu.org> From: Eli Zaretskii To: Ihor Radchenko , Stefan Monnier Cc: dsmasterson@gmail.com, emacs-orgmode@gnu.org, michel@schi.nz, 59882@debbugs.gnu.org In-Reply-To: <87edt2qpoa.fsf@localhost> (message from Ihor Radchenko on Wed, 14 Dec 2022 09:51:01 +0000) Subject: Re: bug#59882: Multiple versions of Org in load-path problem References: <87tu27jq7h.fsf@localhost> <87k032nyok.fsf@localhost> <39a5810d-75bc-4ddb-8722-703f762ed4de@app.fastmail.com> <835yel11x8.fsf@gnu.org> <87edt2qpoa.fsf@localhost> X-BeenThere: emacs-orgmode@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "General discussions about Org-mode." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-orgmode-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org Sender: emacs-orgmode-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org X-Migadu-Country: US X-Migadu-Flow: FLOW_IN ARC-Message-Signature: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=yhetil.org; s=key1; t=1671022839; h=from:from:sender:sender:reply-to:subject:subject:date:date: message-id:message-id:to:to:cc:cc:in-reply-to:in-reply-to: references:references:list-id:list-help:list-unsubscribe: list-subscribe:list-post:dkim-signature; bh=eaedBL0dDVZaLly6EwNHAUf0uD6bdk4MbUi2fyHjTQs=; b=a+XT+ImBdW6SedVDRBlL9ZXC0jFILceIqDSBt/Xik++wN1oYy2LjKCEnou5Aghk0MpKDqh T5LtCeAA7jfUdy+nG1pz+K7YGuUpj/xxPK9Xyq4jZz1WjO5Lp6zYVjCC1zIJHsaNClcz8p FZwZCnw76yNSP46jFhRG6zecB59Xpsb486seqyeZSORE4AvnnoMHmNiAb2qRReVU1vKeXI 4azEOzMgSVQ0xNNE7WeA9CE/njeFlgbnEgX0PWwq1Wf3Yy1hELIn+mL9BF/6N2OfAz8iDg WYF3orS6lDdvKmXyAuFeVchMwzwWmzUvf5FfCiqsuKETqDFpQIYQn86wqk+6YQ== ARC-Authentication-Results: i=1; aspmx1.migadu.com; dkim=pass header.d=gnu.org header.s=fencepost-gnu-org header.b=OllkgFQV; spf=pass (aspmx1.migadu.com: domain of "emacs-orgmode-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org" designates 209.51.188.17 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom="emacs-orgmode-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org"; dmarc=pass (policy=none) header.from=gnu.org ARC-Seal: i=1; s=key1; d=yhetil.org; t=1671022839; a=rsa-sha256; cv=none; b=U1X4o5zDTwvFah6WPcH6VoM69gI+B+wH24+tr7GvWEuZjhLOmOCwikt75Z4CPOx4ORhWjI +L2unzFtXe+fB0uH2cCzTq+omxeBo1wkMs4TGJwB1fAmnbzBJXo13R7hlBCcNI0mQ4Eqmx PcRUuHRKHA4eAjDLC+ozkw9jP5NzAYWw7XYLqOJO9bKeiv5yauU3s/ZtB82BUYBtSmm3Jq d8MIrp6MM6ESbsSbOEF4VSQKCqf/ygENpbb56B/41OSA9YOIpih379dLVdA/YsT19QUKHX X++2z374N46azKPyeG9Wv9/tcpiRJHdmEPMP1UoiayRi5gTeZLimlxJTZRlwtQ== X-Migadu-Spam-Score: -5.85 X-Spam-Score: -5.85 X-Migadu-Queue-Id: 7F935E5C3 X-Migadu-Scanner: scn1.migadu.com Authentication-Results: aspmx1.migadu.com; dkim=pass header.d=gnu.org header.s=fencepost-gnu-org header.b=OllkgFQV; spf=pass (aspmx1.migadu.com: domain of "emacs-orgmode-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org" designates 209.51.188.17 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom="emacs-orgmode-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org"; dmarc=pass (policy=none) header.from=gnu.org X-TUID: dwlcIyTkHRgq > From: Ihor Radchenko > Cc: David Masterson , emacs-orgmode@gnu.org, > michel@schi.nz, 59882@debbugs.gnu.org > Date: Wed, 14 Dec 2022 09:51:01 +0000 > > On a related note, is it normal that package like org-mouse.el gets > loaded upon calling C-h f org-mouse- completion prompt? > org-mouse.el does not contain a single autoload cookie. I think it's expected, because the doc strings need to be loaded. Stefan, am I right? > I am asking because org-mouse.el advises some functions and its loading > may cause unexpected consequences. See > https://orgmode.org/list/87r0x6sju1.fsf@fastmail.fm I think org-mouse.el should be fixed not to cause such effects just by loading it. It should do that only when it is actually used. > At the same time, we have users complaining about some defcustoms not > being available without loading. > https://orgmode.org/list/25496.19258.682537.503614@gargle.gargle.HOWL That's too vague: it talks about "whether a variable exists", which is ambiguous. That a variable is not boundp until its definition is loaded is perfectly expected, and I don't think defcustom changes that in any way (unless you autoload the defcustom, which is considered not the best style around here). So I guess some clarification is in order: what exactly was the problem with that variable being "nonexistent"?