From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mp2 ([2001:41d0:2:4a6f::]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) by ms0.migadu.com with LMTPS id sDvqBsK9imB4fgAAgWs5BA (envelope-from ) for ; Thu, 29 Apr 2021 16:08:02 +0200 Received: from aspmx1.migadu.com ([2001:41d0:2:4a6f::]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits)) by mp2 with LMTPS id Bsd2AsK9imCeWwAAB5/wlQ (envelope-from ) for ; Thu, 29 Apr 2021 14:08:02 +0000 Received: from lists.gnu.org (lists.gnu.org [209.51.188.17]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by aspmx1.migadu.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 9137C21C78 for ; Thu, 29 Apr 2021 16:08:01 +0200 (CEST) Received: from localhost ([::1]:39430 helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1lc7Ki-0000nu-MG for larch@yhetil.org; Thu, 29 Apr 2021 10:08:00 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:41944) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1lc7KK-0000mD-Tj for emacs-orgmode@gnu.org; Thu, 29 Apr 2021 10:07:37 -0400 Received: from mout02.posteo.de ([185.67.36.66]:49503) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1lc7KI-0000oU-Kd for emacs-orgmode@gnu.org; Thu, 29 Apr 2021 10:07:36 -0400 Received: from submission (posteo.de [89.146.220.130]) by mout02.posteo.de (Postfix) with ESMTPS id ABDCD240109 for ; Thu, 29 Apr 2021 16:07:30 +0200 (CEST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=posteo.net; s=2017; t=1619705250; bh=ruRVhjUUngztLVP7ugX0QpQGkXORLmJ9bLtLJaPIjOQ=; h=To:Cc:From:Subject:Date:From; b=o78l1sn96podGG++8WM2hKwETtWk+1+ocK3RADBZRWfnyzSE+8G9hpCkdoWrhf/7c 3iSBAOjnIyhu87+Mh2nLjkR/qL8zajKYWpgx+bbRu5L0369hRi5bjToz0KHNNRjFZI C+3yQhUuqMhF6xufsMMd6Nm5zE6SwxwA8H9hoYnAwfa+u4Sh+sChYpQQTjMsKfvP+R 654Z4P7OktRRqFRk578CYvznEPrI39UmdSsRVLiTQI3YolKzfkKZdiSQLrgqcP7kRB 1WLvQmyaSmh2fyeNRJDYcnU9bX8NXnzRuwdyq8RDczyJRiCO2wt5jXGLJkMs9Tv29c NZZI8nt/EZAHw== Received: from customer (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by submission (posteo.de) with ESMTPSA id 4FWHPq5GG0z6tmg; Thu, 29 Apr 2021 16:07:27 +0200 (CEST) To: Timothy References: <87pmyuyssi.fsf@gmail.com> From: D Subject: Re: Concerns about community contributor support Message-ID: <819bee63-7cf1-917c-d77e-b33999d217c8@posteo.net> Date: Thu, 29 Apr 2021 14:07:26 +0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <87pmyuyssi.fsf@gmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Language: en-US Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Received-SPF: pass client-ip=185.67.36.66; envelope-from=d.williams@posteo.net; helo=mout02.posteo.de X-Spam_score_int: -43 X-Spam_score: -4.4 X-Spam_bar: ---- X-Spam_report: (-4.4 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H4=0.001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: emacs-orgmode@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.23 Precedence: list List-Id: "General discussions about Org-mode." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Cc: emacs-orgmode@gnu.org Errors-To: emacs-orgmode-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org Sender: "Emacs-orgmode" X-Migadu-Flow: FLOW_IN ARC-Message-Signature: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=yhetil.org; s=key1; t=1619705281; h=from:from:sender:sender:reply-to:subject:subject:date:date: message-id:message-id:to:to:cc:cc:mime-version:mime-version: content-type:content-type: content-transfer-encoding:content-transfer-encoding: in-reply-to:in-reply-to:references:references:list-id:list-help: list-unsubscribe:list-subscribe:list-post:dkim-signature; bh=qpcW5CDdYaHb6n6aoC1qs4mhea/nQpJDOATuMzn6uQw=; b=GOzyAzzy4vcgZxowwGQP2THvRS8srp/MfNBNXBS6cwUamNLOVzFZV7iYfcPpWU4twD8kGn p+3oZ/rURryGDQJHIlILATAiHXPvmFIar1+C1Jz2NTcq1yNRukksOpxYw8/USCbhMBS8rJ qyt0OYCCNrSmo7lRLRUBJrgCFPZv/xrHNLUMWco/MY+Z/GtJepNsiy7D1izDzy9ee9NyLY xswuj/z+bBY+nzVXbp0QH4y+w2YptSTShRxo0dSH1dVWr15p5QAFjdR6Yjc7qsQeFhBPBz r6KM2qg46/EzHtQxhx7LNh+ml5iGxXwFle/9nAOP8zn95guq4TcpT00iOPUy+A== ARC-Seal: i=1; s=key1; d=yhetil.org; t=1619705281; a=rsa-sha256; cv=none; b=AHn5Ug8FNgdPlqJkzYaNH9c4NTqWhUq+tNqVUoSnKnanay34qVzrKP3XTU0sCNfOHbok7Q IexI2VMEF6QBqtv3UqDt2pD/4Aq2mZfekx6i1VKNgwbl8vLIG/HqBWV6FkpoTmjxwhwk4h jyZU/PWal0sU0mUIYFpcSCFydgZUtJOVXO0PN1u0N/gK0jYdBgnB0mwipIwNSpYl/0DYX+ owgGVmtjpShKaDslNXQqvl7+7uNjJm2y9u7c3/cH4RZT3QmlPmH47QMeCM0VOgVnuHd/y1 PDgsnrXgDT4mjklFScUhYywwy2JeaKXuXDIE8gtd6MQK/Gb3zY5AlSFueGkeqg== ARC-Authentication-Results: i=1; aspmx1.migadu.com; dkim=pass header.d=posteo.net header.s=2017 header.b=o78l1sn9; spf=pass (aspmx1.migadu.com: domain of emacs-orgmode-bounces@gnu.org designates 209.51.188.17 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=emacs-orgmode-bounces@gnu.org X-Migadu-Spam-Score: -3.16 Authentication-Results: aspmx1.migadu.com; dkim=pass header.d=posteo.net header.s=2017 header.b=o78l1sn9; dmarc=pass (policy=none) header.from=posteo.net; spf=pass (aspmx1.migadu.com: domain of emacs-orgmode-bounces@gnu.org designates 209.51.188.17 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=emacs-orgmode-bounces@gnu.org X-Migadu-Queue-Id: 9137C21C78 X-Spam-Score: -3.16 X-Migadu-Scanner: scn0.migadu.com X-TUID: +8ZNgq2IfHdZ Hi Timothy, I was quite weary to bring up this point, but given the sheer volume of patch-related exchanges in recent memory I feel that it may be worth bringing up as I have not yet seen it discussed (if I overlooked it, my apologies): I don't think the core problem can (or maybe should) be solved by sheer manpower alone. I would argue that the issue may be partially infrastructural in nature. This ML is incredibly active, with a lot of different people surely following it for different reasons. However, I am not entirely convinced that having patches, bug reports and general discussions all in one place is necessarily a net positive for people wanting to contribute to the project (once a project hits a certain size, at least). It lacks a certain separation of concerns that clearly informed the design of forges like GitHub (having separate "Issues" and "PRs"). I may be alone with this opinion, given manually organizing is a personal weakness of mine, and something I prefer to avoid at all costs, but I think having a separate list for patches would greatly improve their visibility without having to resort to band-aids like automated subject-based filtering schemes which are thwarted by mundane human error ("[PTACH]"). On the other hand, were I completely alone with this opinion, then we wouldn't have dozens of emacs-* mailing lists already. TL;DR: Maybe we could improve the visibility of patches by having a dedicated mailing list for them? This would also allow for a greater deal of automation in the way we deal with patches. Cheers, D.