From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mp0 ([2001:41d0:8:6d80::]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits)) by ms0.migadu.com with LMTPS id AI0TLV3hrWH6cAEAgWs5BA (envelope-from ) for ; Mon, 06 Dec 2021 11:09:33 +0100 Received: from aspmx1.migadu.com ([2001:41d0:8:6d80::]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits)) by mp0 with LMTPS id 1HrSKF3hrWEwLwAA1q6Kng (envelope-from ) for ; Mon, 06 Dec 2021 10:09:33 +0000 Received: from lists.gnu.org (lists.gnu.org [209.51.188.17]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by aspmx1.migadu.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 49084285D9 for ; Mon, 6 Dec 2021 11:09:32 +0100 (CET) Received: from localhost ([::1]:46640 helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1muAw7-0007eZ-38 for larch@yhetil.org; Mon, 06 Dec 2021 05:09:31 -0500 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([209.51.188.92]:37046) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1muAvj-0007cu-5p for emacs-orgmode@gnu.org; Mon, 06 Dec 2021 05:09:07 -0500 Received: from relay-egress-host.us-east-2.a.mail.umich.edu ([18.216.144.57]:35878 helo=legible-afallach.relay-egress.a.mail.umich.edu) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_128_GCM_SHA256:128) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1muAvg-0005a0-U5 for emacs-orgmode@gnu.org; Mon, 06 Dec 2021 05:09:06 -0500 Received: from sylvan-kishi.authn-relay.a.mail.umich.edu (ip-10-0-72-213.us-east-2.compute.internal [10.0.72.213]) by legible-afallach.relay-egress.a.mail.umich.edu with ESMTPS id 61ADE140.137DF.12182416.2031294; Mon, 06 Dec 2021 05:09:04 -0500 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=umich.edu; s=relay-2018-08-29; t=1638785343; bh=M2I7C/0iu5aqST20O2ZnEhk6lMz9DTABeRVv2EnyAWw=; h=To:cc:From:Subject:In-reply-to:References:Date; b=aVUBMaesoIUC4dYcXVXF0BpAMTS1IRmppejwkGLjxkuWCjrA22MyXOUq7a/dicRGX TFoPPLfY9sBJL3+3bllHEZpfxHI2tWpgGbezrJ2KgY+W9li9NRLGSIck0p+jgrUFaD EG18HFWMx1QHz79HoxKL9XG8Y0SGyshsrSFpo9sxevDKg7AxmpHpBsqlpV72eoxBIt 9A8anweaXHSsk2Y9SHZvuG4KnOvLEYiIa+sf1FT5LPMOwjz5MCiUNC0yK+Bo95z/nB V17HIj+yyZ4kmBdOHZ0qxybF/INLCrcmfFvzLE82TeFbyNqRXCa1VwBpCpEdBe2JvU ZDYZ3ZJLldBgg== Received: from localhost (Mismatch [88.254.21.189]) by sylvan-kishi.authn-relay.a.mail.umich.edu with ESMTPSA id 61ADE13E.42951.3E1C4923.1597626; Mon, 06 Dec 2021 05:09:03 -0500 To: Ihor Radchenko From: Greg Minshall Subject: Re: Concrete suggestions to improve Org mode third-party integration :: an afterthought following Karl Voit's Orgdown proposal In-reply-to: <87lf0zb6fq.fsf@localhost> References: <87tufnbj1w.fsf@localhost> <87sfv75s4r.fsf@posteo.net> <87o85vbb9a.fsf@localhost> <87y24zs40r.fsf@posteo.net> <87lf0zb6fq.fsf@localhost> Comments: In-reply-to Ihor Radchenko message dated "Sun, 05 Dec 2021 20:08:09 +0800." X-Mailer: MH-E 8.6+git; nmh 1.7.1; GNU Emacs 27.2 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-ID: <796670.1638785337.1@apollo2.minshall.org> Date: Mon, 06 Dec 2021 13:08:57 +0300 Message-ID: <796671.1638785337@apollo2.minshall.org> Received-SPF: pass client-ip=18.216.144.57; envelope-from=minshall@umich.edu; helo=legible-afallach.relay-egress.a.mail.umich.edu X-Spam_score_int: -20 X-Spam_score: -2.1 X-Spam_bar: -- X-Spam_report: (-2.1 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: emacs-orgmode@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "General discussions about Org-mode." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Cc: Juan Manuel =?utf-8?Q?Mac=C3=ADas?= , orgmode Errors-To: emacs-orgmode-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org Sender: "Emacs-orgmode" X-Migadu-Flow: FLOW_IN X-Migadu-Country: US ARC-Message-Signature: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=yhetil.org; s=key1; t=1638785373; h=from:from:sender:sender:reply-to:subject:subject:date:date: message-id:message-id:to:to:cc:cc:mime-version:mime-version: content-type:content-type:in-reply-to:in-reply-to: references:references:list-id:list-help:list-unsubscribe: list-subscribe:list-post:dkim-signature; bh=M2I7C/0iu5aqST20O2ZnEhk6lMz9DTABeRVv2EnyAWw=; b=H28SlY/KqMSd22OTBY3cXHWAskCh8vFy2GV/scB7UaurL4ZO63i+l9pYDcu7J/jhpBB2jL NYd2j8HsIUhQpRAo8itQkveQ2+S+erQUWx/ItP9uqlD1Zi3tI+uG5WIDHOWaSCQUF1uVlq JKX4ZI7lZr0URwbYsXS/i9WLb95Qgy3AmI+k0mqPKU6uZCO5rSocYxuwGTumJaAXSzPaHb KwkcKE4+jMqqyljp6h6stOO5oXsbjvucwyeMT8AJ6LxdWvdxFzyJ+ZtyeoHe7FPqAO+Toh 6uKif6I8Q14WS9ls3lEKiZIbtpbCOXCFcWZnWNm54KKmm8WBbcw/HwPbeTuEGg== ARC-Seal: i=1; s=key1; d=yhetil.org; t=1638785373; a=rsa-sha256; cv=none; b=pTmk6wqpxC0mn8y0XEWS4i8JbP1EzMqUtboBb6jSbv4uxgfrkoo1H4CG7ryq8F46Ixzdtk X7AldwF6/4Q/9ZHix9QqH2JED9LEBakPNznqaS/s8wtuZo7nVreKuYfw+tUq9S2yO5QiuA CPnwbJ448GZ7LThrjvCfiTrDxn6orJeW51pBfw9dAakyiDzPAfRn/i+/Ki6czQAMv3FFXT 1R2f4L63Km/UmpqunpbxxFzctrOKo7BWn6VlE8AcLaKGMDKuHm+2v9ZKzRB9qTkFn1fCxI nW4iBatensTi+CaNIzrP+BEoaF3DbDp5dWRE9vQZ0q8HpftNwuZWcbX16o7kQQ== ARC-Authentication-Results: i=1; aspmx1.migadu.com; dkim=pass header.d=umich.edu header.s=relay-2018-08-29 header.b=aVUBMaes; dmarc=pass (policy=none) header.from=umich.edu; spf=pass (aspmx1.migadu.com: domain of "emacs-orgmode-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org" designates 209.51.188.17 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom="emacs-orgmode-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org" X-Migadu-Spam-Score: -5.14 Authentication-Results: aspmx1.migadu.com; dkim=pass header.d=umich.edu header.s=relay-2018-08-29 header.b=aVUBMaes; dmarc=pass (policy=none) header.from=umich.edu; spf=pass (aspmx1.migadu.com: domain of "emacs-orgmode-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org" designates 209.51.188.17 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom="emacs-orgmode-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org" X-Migadu-Queue-Id: 49084285D9 X-Spam-Score: -5.14 X-Migadu-Scanner: scn0.migadu.com X-TUID: Cv3oG2sEzgI8 Ihor, > Search result is just an entrance for users to be curious about the > new beast of "Org mode". The website front page is the means to make > users try. And the Org mode itself is the way to make users fall in > love with Org in one way or another (even unrelated to Emacs [at least > initially]). i *do* agree that our hope is that people will see the great benefit of, and use, "emacs org mode". however, along with others, i don't want people to fall in love with "org mode" itself, but, rather with the full "running org mode with emacs". at the same time, i have a desire that "the general public" will be able to "work with" "emacs org mode" *files*; i.e., treat them as somewhat more than a collection of octets. *how much* more is tbd; i sort of saw Karl Voit's proposal of "level 1", ..., as being an attempt to define ways of extracting (limited) utility from an org mode file. cheers, Greg