From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mp1 ([2001:41d0:2:4a6f::]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits)) by ms11 with LMTPS id mM/iLeE8kF6VGQAA0tVLHw (envelope-from ) for ; Fri, 10 Apr 2020 09:31:13 +0000 Received: from aspmx1.migadu.com ([2001:41d0:2:4a6f::]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits)) by mp1 with LMTPS id kE+ADuM8kF5FRQAAbx9fmQ (envelope-from ) for ; Fri, 10 Apr 2020 09:31:15 +0000 Received: from lists.gnu.org (lists.gnu.org [209.51.188.17]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by aspmx1.migadu.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id E538E942CD3 for ; Fri, 10 Apr 2020 09:31:12 +0000 (UTC) Received: from localhost ([::1]:60290 helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1jMq0E-0002lB-FS for larch@yhetil.org; Fri, 10 Apr 2020 05:31:10 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:50092) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1jMpzJ-0002fj-3S for emacs-orgmode@gnu.org; Fri, 10 Apr 2020 05:30:14 -0400 Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1jMpzH-0007Sn-J3 for emacs-orgmode@gnu.org; Fri, 10 Apr 2020 05:30:12 -0400 Received: from mout-p-102.mailbox.org ([2001:67c:2050::465:102]:49020) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.0:RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:32) (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1jMpzG-0007FE-VP for emacs-orgmode@gnu.org; Fri, 10 Apr 2020 05:30:11 -0400 Received: from smtp2.mailbox.org (smtp2.mailbox.org [IPv6:2001:67c:2050:105:465:1:2:0]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-CHACHA20-POLY1305 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by mout-p-102.mailbox.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 48zCQq5sRMzKmTp for ; Fri, 10 Apr 2020 11:29:55 +0200 (CEST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=mailbox.org; h= content-type:content-type:mime-version:subject:subject :message-id:reply-to:from:from:date:date:received; s= mail20150812; t=1586510992; bh=m0XdNBfi4B+SANypyeUIokqZ0rnpv7dwE mBgGOYFxkI=; b=KPh/FIUaBSNmhl+ff8Br3d++iz08SFTOjIKeTIoNBYqrUkdWo 7d3HEQN4I9xFKnD5MNoFTlFGnMWM96DmRrBDIFQv/9tobHEJRu48viC1kf5A0DZ2 uWvSxpOtI46yGiwAp8UfmNjY8UhA/U52rkSucmBwhNSsWX+cSEy6jOqeQcG/e3Ly 4SzKCx9zfg02daOwi4V6h/a1TjPQzuZtbq72SbL9VNB+QuJ6Eiyy8fu+13XEnOVn tvMkYrx6Vfbp2E3xjvs725ZMhZyzrqTfaOOkzwPCS9BmPSdt44J1yLJgpDoKhdWN NB0dQE8rrBvCMCkl98CJdLoZ2oZyxk59yEwOw== DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=mailbox.org; s=mail20150812; t=1586510993; h=from:from:reply-to:reply-to:subject:subject:date:date: message-id:message-id:to:to:cc:mime-version:mime-version: content-type:content-type; bh=YQCt5kT6TTQ6QucqsC4HBJlrAWuVBFFVWp9siNbOpPY=; b=qma0RUapKViAGWySwCDWmWwXjnCGfIE7fCKWdgBUYsmcXrn1Pa5Ys0q3S5WtEriiwhqutG tDaxMUnx0gTi4KGfPzMazDaw29oUf5sk/QAm9Kq4Z5TYKGluH1EPRVxmCICaJsGVB0cAlZ sc/kcxxq8W2Az+CN+XqWobck7dMI20qJNCo80MUmyQS39mhhSUIFQHIE2qjbxAc2+YGkYQ xKCUmqlHD+Y5rvNz6EA5KTGgLjeZKAPYnK7Nh4Np8BP5rFmnEuFOWQl0ohebUGq+ss5Lel 8HSrY+5qmyhk15z057AvpL7lrNlp5QxITItD1u25ApJaVmw81bwPbUomOiZqOQ== X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at heinlein-support.de Received: from smtp2.mailbox.org ([80.241.60.241]) by spamfilter04.heinlein-hosting.de (spamfilter04.heinlein-hosting.de [80.241.56.122]) (amavisd-new, port 10030) with ESMTP id 6TDgsfPf88UN for ; Fri, 10 Apr 2020 11:29:52 +0200 (CEST) Date: Fri, 10 Apr 2020 11:29:51 +0200 (CEST) From: denis.maier.lists@mailbox.org To: "emacs-orgmode@gnu.org" Message-ID: <777184861.71192.1586510991834@office.mailbox.org> Subject: Re: wip-cite status question and feedback MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_Part_71191_388796850.1586510991830" X-Priority: 3 Importance: Normal X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 98D2C1693 X-Rspamd-Score: -3.40 / 15.00 / 15.00 X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: Genre and OS details not recognized. X-Received-From: 2001:67c:2050::465:102 X-BeenThere: emacs-orgmode@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.23 Precedence: list List-Id: "General discussions about Org-mode." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Reply-To: denis.maier.lists@mailbox.org Errors-To: emacs-orgmode-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org Sender: "Emacs-orgmode" ARC-Message-Signature: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=yhetil.org; s=default; t=1586511073; h=from:from:sender:sender:reply-to:reply-to:subject:subject:date:date: message-id:message-id:to:to:cc:mime-version:mime-version: content-type:content-type:list-id:list-help:list-unsubscribe: list-subscribe:list-post:dkim-signature; bh=YQCt5kT6TTQ6QucqsC4HBJlrAWuVBFFVWp9siNbOpPY=; b=aLS27PljgOtPmdB5CHKIOGSROtD8xFtyLCFfh5K3PGKptPY9rdTYVsXuBt7kaITnBy9VFt vaOxToulKdyDSpT3EI0yl/paIynJCuS5Fbq3hgTPncaOlBtghSsuiQf7XI1ufVqrEOKmow vnXj0L6t/yIGaEoP4AeQFzksHMRO8xQ= ARC-Seal: i=1; s=default; d=yhetil.org; t=1586511073; a=rsa-sha256; cv=none; b=dTGnFYbZJf3DgX6tCHGH+ZixKC8UhSoD3ityPVg8R3+MDuACFtkMxO/xg7xCjbV7QBYSS7 HyhuM3lfhHwYHzzF6PzTWboibZdo1oLqpZ6JD9YVZn5bvw5uFkkCzLD0i8ZZcLnCkUPrMO dOOg1j/+aP6AFpBUCSLlTsrgE6JmaMA= ARC-Authentication-Results: i=1; aspmx1.migadu.com; dkim=pass header.d=mailbox.org header.s=mail20150812 header.b=KPh/FIUa; dkim=pass header.d=mailbox.org header.s=mail20150812 header.b=qma0RUap; dmarc=pass (policy=none) header.from=mailbox.org; spf=pass (aspmx1.migadu.com: domain of emacs-orgmode-bounces@gnu.org designates 209.51.188.17 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=emacs-orgmode-bounces@gnu.org X-Scanner: scn0 X-Spam-Score: 0.29 Authentication-Results: aspmx1.migadu.com; dkim=pass header.d=mailbox.org header.s=mail20150812 header.b=KPh/FIUa; dkim=pass header.d=mailbox.org header.s=mail20150812 header.b=qma0RUap; dmarc=pass (policy=none) header.from=mailbox.org; spf=pass (aspmx1.migadu.com: domain of emacs-orgmode-bounces@gnu.org designates 209.51.188.17 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=emacs-orgmode-bounces@gnu.org X-Scan-Result: default: False [0.29 / 13.00]; HAS_REPLYTO(0.00)[denis.maier.lists@mailbox.org]; GENERIC_REPUTATION(0.00)[-0.58030324252385]; R_SPF_ALLOW(-0.20)[+ip4:209.51.188.0/24:c]; IP_REPUTATION_HAM(0.00)[asn: 22989(0.30), country: US(-0.01), ip: 209.51.188.17(-0.58)]; ARC_SIGNED(0.00)[i=1]; URI_COUNT_ODD(1.00)[3]; MX_GOOD(-0.50)[cached: eggs.gnu.org]; DKIM_TRACE(0.00)[mailbox.org:+]; HAS_X_PRIO_THREE(0.00)[3]; MAILLIST(-0.20)[mailman]; DMARC_POLICY_ALLOW(-0.50)[mailbox.org,none]; FORGED_RECIPIENTS_MAILLIST(0.00)[]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+,1:+,2:~]; RCVD_TLS_LAST(0.00)[]; ASN(0.00)[asn:22989, ipnet:209.51.188.0/24, country:US]; TAGGED_FROM(0.00)[larch=yhetil.org]; FROM_NEQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[denis.maier.lists@mailbox.org,emacs-orgmode-bounces@gnu.org]; FAKE_REPLY(1.00)[]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; R_DKIM_ALLOW(-0.20)[mailbox.org:s=mail20150812]; REPLYTO_EQ_FROM(0.00)[]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[multipart/alternative,text/plain]; PREVIOUSLY_DELIVERED(0.00)[emacs-orgmode@gnu.org]; HAS_LIST_UNSUB(-0.01)[]; RCPT_COUNT_ONE(0.00)[1]; FROM_NO_DN(0.00)[]; TO_DN_EQ_ADDR_ALL(0.00)[]; RCVD_COUNT_SEVEN(0.00)[7]; FORGED_SENDER_MAILLIST(0.00)[] X-TUID: /QhTFB/QlVeb ------=_Part_71191_388796850.1586510991830 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi, very good to see these things are getting discussed again. (Back then, I have been following the citation syntax discussion from a distance rather then participating actively, so that's my first post here.) It would be great if Org had a closer integration with a Citeproc. This would be a huge improvement for those who use Emacs and Org for academic writing. Anyway, concerning this: > Speaking of which, I read about the "citation modes", which may be preferred over "suppress author". What are these citation modes? How do you combine them if "suppress author" is one of the "citation modes". Bruce has already sent a link to Pandoc's org-mode Reader where you can find the citation modes. The standard (markdown) implementation can be found here: https://github.com/jgm/pandoc/blob/f2b337768e95c8903f65e597f7d8cd81938dacc3/src/Text/Pandoc/Readers/Markdown.hs Anyway, currently there are basically three modes: - NormalCitation - SuppressAuthor - AuthorInText At the moment, there is no way to combine modes. A simple markdown sample: #+BEGIN_SRC [@doe] [-@doe] @doe argues ... -@doe [23] #+END_SRC Gives: #+BEGIN_EXAMPLE [Para [Cite [Citation {citationId = "doe", citationPrefix = [], citationSuffix = [], citationMode = NormalCitation, citationNoteNum = 0, citationHash = 0}] [Str "[@doe]"]] ,Para [Cite [Citation {citationId = "doe", citationPrefix = [], citationSuffix = [], citationMode = SuppressAuthor, citationNoteNum = 0, citationHash = 0}] [Str "[-@doe]"]] ,Para [Cite [Citation {citationId = "doe", citationPrefix = [], citationSuffix = [], citationMode = AuthorInText, citationNoteNum = 0, citationHash = 0}] [Str "@doe"],Space,Str "argues",Space,Str "\8230"] ,Para [Cite [Citation {citationId = "doe", citationPrefix = [], citationSuffix = [Str "23"], citationMode = SuppressAuthor, citationNoteNum = 0, citationHash = 0}] [Str "@doe",Space,Str "[23]"]] #+END_EXAMPLE So: [@doe] => NormalCitation [-@doe] => SuppressAuthor @doe argues ... => AuthorInText -@doe [23] => SuppressAuthor I do admit that this last example is a bit pointless, but it shows a point. => SuppressAuthor takes precedence over the other modes in both cases. Depending on CSL's future development there might well be other citations modes. I personally think there's much to learn from biblatex, but that's a different debate... Best, Denis ------=_Part_71191_388796850.1586510991830 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Hi,

very good to see these things are getting discussed again. (Back then, I have been following the citation syntax discussion from a distance rather then participating actively, so that's my first post here.)

It would be great if Org had a closer integration with a Citeproc. This would be a huge improvement for those who use Emacs and Org for academic writing.

Anyway, concerning this:

> Speaking of which, I read about the "citation modes", which may be preferred over "suppress author". What are these citation modes? How do you combine them if "suppress author" is one of the "citation modes".

Bruce has already sent a link to Pandoc's org-mode Reader where you can find the citation modes. The standard (markdown) implementation can be found here: https://github.com/jgm/pandoc/blob/f2b337768e95c8903f65e597f7d8cd81938dacc3/src/Text/Pandoc/Readers/Markdown.hs

Anyway, currently there are basically three modes:
- NormalCitation
- SuppressAuthor
- AuthorInText

At the moment, there is no way to combine modes.

A simple markdown sample:

#+BEGIN_SRC
[@doe]

[-@doe]

@doe argues ...

-@doe [23]
#+END_SRC

Gives:

#+BEGIN_EXAMPLE
[Para [Cite [Citation {citationId = "doe", citationPrefix = [], citationSuffix = [], citationMode = NormalCitation, citationNoteNum = 0, citationHash = 0}] [Str "[@doe]"]]
,Para [Cite [Citation {citationId = "doe", citationPrefix = [], citationSuffix = [], citationMode = SuppressAuthor, citationNoteNum = 0, citationHash = 0}] [Str "[-@doe]"]]
,Para [Cite [Citation {citationId = "doe", citationPrefix = [], citationSuffix = [], citationMode = AuthorInText, citationNoteNum = 0, citationHash = 0}] [Str "@doe"],Space,Str "argues",Space,Str "\8230"]
,Para [Cite [Citation {citationId = "doe", citationPrefix = [], citationSuffix = [Str "23"], citationMode = SuppressAuthor, citationNoteNum = 0, citationHash = 0}] [Str "@doe",Space,Str "[23]"]]
#+END_EXAMPLE

So:
[@doe] => NormalCitation
[-@doe] => SuppressAuthor
@doe argues ... => AuthorInText
-@doe [23] => SuppressAuthor

I do admit that this last example is a bit pointless, but it shows a point. => SuppressAuthor takes precedence over the other modes in both cases.

Depending on CSL's future development there might well be other citations modes. I personally think there's much to learn from biblatex, but that's a different debate...

Best,
Denis


------=_Part_71191_388796850.1586510991830--