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[220.235.140.148]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id qb14-20020a17090b280e00b002291295fc2dsm7846894pjb.17.2023.01.17.03.47.26 (version=TLS1_3 cipher=TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 bits=256/256); Tue, 17 Jan 2023 03:47:29 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <63c68ad1.170a0220.53731.bacf@mx.google.com> X-Google-Original-Message-ID: --text follows this line-- References: <874jsqbvfq.fsf@kraus.my> <87358an35i.fsf@localhost> <63c5b8db.170a0220.e466f.2573@mx.google.com> <87o7qxmr6y.fsf@kraus.my> <87fsc9iifs.fsf@localhost> User-agent: mu4e 1.9.14; emacs 29.0.60 From: Tim Cross To: Ihor Radchenko Cc: Daniel Kraus , Bastien , Timothy , emacs-orgmode@gnu.org, Richard Stallman Subject: Re: Supporting non-free SQL clients in ob-sql (was: [PATCH] ob-sql: Add support for Athena) Date: Tue, 17 Jan 2023 22:38:53 +1100 In-reply-to: <87fsc9iifs.fsf@localhost> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Received-SPF: pass client-ip=2607:f8b0:4864:20::102f; envelope-from=theophilusx@gmail.com; helo=mail-pj1-x102f.google.com X-Spam_score_int: -20 X-Spam_score: -2.1 X-Spam_bar: -- X-Spam_report: (-2.1 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: emacs-orgmode@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "General discussions about Org-mode." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-orgmode-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org Sender: emacs-orgmode-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org X-Migadu-Country: US X-Migadu-Flow: FLOW_IN ARC-Message-Signature: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=yhetil.org; s=key1; t=1673956100; h=from:from:sender:sender:reply-to:subject:subject:date:date: message-id:message-id:to:to:cc:cc:mime-version:mime-version: content-type:content-type:in-reply-to:in-reply-to: references:references:list-id:list-help:list-unsubscribe: list-subscribe:list-post:dkim-signature; bh=68eDlDdHgzDq9wqYL+HcsYarpJecrQwN6vC5cUbBIt8=; b=XJsplnXEhwRGyfWzmRNF9IpzwzG5VO3AIa3yh9iGFd499xfqN1ykE2qHPoc8dbhsekdZUi C99uzc19KUcFKF1IDshyACPyOVoow6NsDGUy6Z/D54NnABaZVsFh3S4p6K9FZiN/C26JPl qlTIlUmaR+wyPMmcAWpO936v80zlxZZqUIiSS270S+aNM9j3ltSeSLapT/Rir1Iefdnt6M ebCgHofx0/j5+w01oNSFsPS2exJJg/t/5Zrujvb6y0OLXJrpIDeb4icH9dGUF/aIqVmpsc CZIFFoBM0WglF4q06Rr9yjbXzMMfT4q4NX8/bD8QuyGIjqsZ0nwXTOoSuEdM2g== ARC-Authentication-Results: i=1; aspmx1.migadu.com; dkim=pass header.d=gmail.com header.s=20210112 header.b="frbJ/M6g"; spf=pass (aspmx1.migadu.com: domain of "emacs-orgmode-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org" designates 209.51.188.17 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom="emacs-orgmode-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org"; dmarc=pass (policy=none) header.from=gmail.com ARC-Seal: i=1; s=key1; d=yhetil.org; t=1673956100; a=rsa-sha256; cv=none; b=VRiAWWg4yi86ikI2CLKJ7DOtsrkWWap0WnVDK9wFJspwZL4wVyT0ik+rjc+rAtZwyAR/U8 bFYp22K6kP2z/Y0d8yXDHYWHBAOwielP7V8H1zZR94KAFTTjwjv7EL4MfgGwei8FCaWrcw BPgV/3kTpKSB3aVkLvnLg/WKm5sAo4+QN8cokNkizexQnypeQZya0/w6TO1C5DNFtphRNo quD2JzouAH2EaDnOchV2Lahrft3mLHCzeeh4M96vwDP/CtDf0aEoE/PRbkD5cZDiB5DYHc TouKyqt2l1v7GZJGYJnCa9ReZp53I7BfLDe9GZQP35dQq47a3Ht4HaDqrRWNuQ== X-Migadu-Scanner: scn0.migadu.com X-Migadu-Spam-Score: -8.39 X-Spam-Score: -8.39 X-Migadu-Queue-Id: 55158E745 Authentication-Results: aspmx1.migadu.com; dkim=pass header.d=gmail.com header.s=20210112 header.b="frbJ/M6g"; spf=pass (aspmx1.migadu.com: domain of "emacs-orgmode-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org" designates 209.51.188.17 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom="emacs-orgmode-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org"; dmarc=pass (policy=none) header.from=gmail.com X-TUID: o1DFzIZSq9yk Ihor Radchenko writes: > Daniel Kraus writes: > >> Tim Cross writes: >> >>> I think you run a high risk of running into GNU policy issues wrt >>> licensing and free software support given this is a cleint for an AWS >>> only database. >> >> Is it because it's cloud only or because it's proprietary? > > Both. For cloud, see > https://www.gnu.org/philosophy/who-does-that-server-really-serve.html > (we can have cloud service support, but only those that are not unjust) > >> Because we already support Orcale, SAP Hana, MSSql and Vertico for example. > > We probably should not. > Ideally, we need universal SQL cli support and then move all non-free > clients to external packages. Well, we don't really support those other databases in the same sense as is bieng proposed here for this AWS db. Those other databases are only supported in the sense that you can tell sql mode you are using one of them and you can add the necessary configuration parameters to make a connnection, but that is it. We don't, for example, provide the Oracle client in order to use the oracle database. The user has to install the Oracle client separately. So, you could likely modify sql-mode to support the ability to pass necessary parameters to a client which can connect to the AWS database, but you cannot bundle the client (in this case, the python code you referenced). The fact this is also a cloud based database does make the situation worse as the official FSF and GNU position is that cloud based services represent a reduction in user freedom because they do not control those services and cannot see the soruce code - essentially, use of those services makes you dependent on and to some extent beholding to (in this case) Amazon. With the other non-free databases, such as Oracle, you can at least install the database on your own hardware.