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From: stardiviner <numbchild@gmail.com>
To: Jean Louis <bugs@gnu.support>
Cc: Bastien <bzg@gnu.org>,
	julien@danjou.info, Org-mode <emacs-orgmode@gnu.org>
Subject: Re: More on design of org-contacts.el - Re: [UPDATED PATCH] Re: add new link type "contact:" for org-contacts.el
Date: Mon, 16 Nov 2020 17:26:20 +0800	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <5fb25297.1c69fb81.324bc.4979@mx.google.com> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <X6vtzxT3Btp+5qD8@protected.rcdrun.com>

First, thank your very much for suggestion.

What really I have not found your email in my Gmail (in web browser), I found it
in mu4e (Emacs). Which I can't reply because I'm in China, sendmail to Gmail
SMTP server is blocked. So I'm replying you in mu4e. Don't know whether you can
receive my message.

Jean Louis <bugs@gnu.support> writes:

> * stardiviner <numbchild@gmail.com> [2020-11-11 15:05]:
>   :CREATED:  [2020-11-11 Wed 16:57]
>   :ID:       17d463d2-ff0c-4614-93da-06e3de8e6035
>   :END:
>> Thank you too.
>> I indeed want to extend org-contacts.el. So I would like to be it's
>> maintainer.
>> Currently how many org-mode maintainer(mailing list manager)?
>> If patch need to wait a month. Because I spend less time on org-mode too
>> comparing before time. I agree with that, I might will add multiple PATCHes
>> together.
> Side notes:
> I have looked into contacts. It relies on a query to find a contact. I
> hope that I am right.
> Text based Org mode anyway may rely on built-in text searches like
> incremental Emacs's search.
> org-contact wishes to pin point to specific contact. It wants to
> create a hyperlink to one specific contact. It does not want to find 2
> contacts with the same query or more of them. 
> As I have 195000 contacts in PostgreSQL database I know from browsing
> them that many of them have same unique names. To reference to a
> specific contact by using name query would be useless as I could miss
> it and take other contact. Thus search involves narrowing contacts by
> maybe state, location and other filters. Each contact has its own
> uniquely assigned ID number. An integer assigned by the database
> automatically.
> By using the ID number I can easily capture the reference link to th
> contact from the database and insert such link into the Org file. As
> long as I do not change the ID number even if contact name is changed
> I would be able to pin point the specific number.
> Thus for org-contacts I recommend creation of unique IDs in the
> properties for headings for each contact so that contact may be
> referenced by the unique ID.

Using unique ID is the only solution to identity contact. I already thought
about this. But integrating org-id is hard for me. Have not spent that time on
it yet. But I will, if I want to improve this org-contacts.

> Additional proposals:
> Each hyperdocument (within or without Emacs) that allows back linking
> to its specifical parts should have a function or key binding to
> quickly obtain the link reference.
> For example if user browses heading for *** John Doe anywhere within
> such heading user should be able to press a key to capture the link to
> the contact automatically.
> In the file my-contacts.org:
> *** John Doe
>     :ID:       cc400d57-2adf-47af-90d9-c4d9fdd70d2b
>     :CREATED:  [2020-11-11 Wed 16:57]
>     :END:
> **** DATA
>      :CREATED:  [2020-11-11 Wed 16:57]
>      :ID:       19781b53-211b-4291-af48-5f3655dd7cec
>      :END:
> **** DATA
>      :CREATED:  [2020-11-11 Wed 16:57]
>      :ID:       e8eb6647-8d8e-4ec6-b759-43dcfd60d17b
>      :END:
> Anywhere within the subtree for John Doe user should be able to obtain
> the reference to the contact. For example by clicking `C-x w'.
> Upon key press following link could then be stored into memory, or
> register, whatever is better design:
> [[org-contact:~/file/my-contacts.org#cc400d57-2adf-47af-90d9-c4d9fdd70d2b][John Doe]]
> Then user would go to other Org file and use `C-y' to yank the contact
> into the new file.
> One shall consider that obtaining the object reference should be
> on the fly customizable. As maybe I wish to have in the link:
> - Contact's first name only like when addressing friends
> - Contact's full name, with or without middle names
> - Contact's name plus city and country
> Having several ways to obtain quickly reference to the contact (to
> generate link in memory) is useful feature that shortens the time and
> makes it less error prone for the user. If only query is used with
> simple typo contact link will not work. What will follow is tedious
> browsing and opening of files to find the right contact.
> User can have many Org contact files and file reference should be
> included into the file. This assumes that files should be fixed in
> file system.
> This proposal follows the Doug Engelbart's Technology Template Project
> for Open Hyperdocument Systems (OHS) in relation to addressing:
> https://www.dougengelbart.org/content/view/110/460/#2b1
> Global, Human-Understandable, Object Addresses
> Every object that someone might validly want/need to cite or otherwise
> access should have an unambiguous address, capable of being portrayed
> in a human readable and interpretable manner. Most common existing
> spreadsheet programs have provisions similar to this for cell
> addressibility
> And:
> Link Addresses That Are Readable and Interpretable by Humans
> https://www.dougengelbart.org/content/view/110/460/#2b1b
> It should be possible to display and specify the complete link address
> of any object in the global domain of the OHS. This human-readable
> description of the "address path" leading to the cited object should
> permit a transparent possibility for human understanding of the path
> including the possibility of reading, interpretation, and conceptually
> following the specification

This proposal is useful. Do you want to contribute on it too?

> As Emacs already supports remote files, contact path can be
> automatically obtained. If I am editing contacts on remote VPS server,
> maybe users on the remote server and their details, then my local Org
> file should be able to point to remote server. Such link would look
> like:
> [[org-contact:/ssh:example.com/home/me/my-contacts.org#cc400d57-2adf-47af-90d9-c4d9fdd70d2b][John Doe]]
> That way the object to cite or access has:
> - unambiguious address by having unique ID
> - by showing literal links user can see WHERE the object is located,
>   is it on localhost, remote server, could be even on https or various
>   other locations.
> - contact's name remain very human readable
> Additionally I have been looking into contacts and have seen the
> structure and I think I did not see the group reference. Contact may
> belong to one or more groups which I call accounts:
> Contact may in in "My family" group, working in the "ABC Company"
> group and being member of "Heidelberger Sportverein" group. And each
> of those groups can be also a contact with or without individual
> names. Every contact management requires groups to satisfy basics of
> off-line contact management. People contact hospitals, network
> providers, government offices and need not have specific individual
> name.
> Thus Org contact need a switch or designation to say if the contact is
> a group or just individual. And for individuals it should ask in which
> group it belongs, while remembering that one contact may belong to
> multiple groups.
> Text is alright for contact management until it reaches certain size
> when it becomes unmanageable. Then it requires GNU GDBM database or
> other type of database which we sadly do not have as built-in.
> Jean

After watching your proposal, I found it's indeed complex....

[ stardiviner ]
       I try to make every word tell the meaning that I want to express.

       Blog: https://stardiviner.github.io/
       IRC(freenode): stardiviner, Matrix: stardiviner
       GPG: F09F650D7D674819892591401B5DF1C95AE89AC3

  reply	other threads:[~2020-11-16 10:22 UTC|newest]

Thread overview: 21+ messages / expand[flat|nested]  mbox.gz  Atom feed  top
2020-10-30  7:35 [PATCH] " stardiviner
2020-10-30  7:44 ` stardiviner
2020-11-09  0:24   ` stardiviner
2020-11-09  6:14     ` Jean Louis
2020-11-10  1:15       ` [UPDATED PATCH] " stardiviner
2020-11-11  8:37         ` Bastien
2020-11-11 12:04           ` stardiviner
2020-11-11 13:57             ` More on design of org-contacts.el - " Jean Louis
2020-11-16  9:26               ` stardiviner [this message]
2020-11-17  6:34                 ` Jean Louis
2020-12-15  8:46                   ` stardiviner
2020-12-14  6:06                 ` Bastien
2020-12-15  8:53                   ` [final patch] " stardiviner
2020-12-15  9:56                     ` Bastien
2020-12-15 14:13                       ` stardiviner
2020-12-15 14:27                         ` Bastien
2021-04-25  3:31                           ` Timothy
2021-04-25  3:59                             ` Timothy
2021-11-03  1:55                   ` More on design of org-contacts.el - Re: [UPDATED PATCH] " stardiviner
2021-11-03 16:45                     ` Bastien
2020-11-11  8:33     ` [PATCH] " Bastien

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