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envelope-from=ccberry@health.ucsd.edu; helo=mx0b-00395d01.pphosted.com X-Spam_score_int: -19 X-Spam_score: -2.0 X-Spam_bar: -- X-Spam_report: (-2.0 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_PDS_OTHER_BAD_TLD=0.01, T_SCC_BODY_TEXT_LINE=-0.01 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: emacs-orgmode@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "General discussions about Org-mode." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-orgmode-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org Sender: emacs-orgmode-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org X-Migadu-Flow: FLOW_IN X-Migadu-Country: US X-Migadu-Scanner: mx0.migadu.com X-Migadu-Spam-Score: -12.01 X-Spam-Score: -12.01 X-Migadu-Queue-Id: 45F9F6F19F X-TUID: 1i23KxwOFhsy > On Jul 15, 2023, at 9:11 AM, Thomas S. Dye wrote: >=20 >=20 > Ihor Radchenko writes: >=20 >> "Thomas S. Dye" writes: >>=20 >>>> Am I correct that language-specific header arguments are not yet cover= ed >>>> in the manual? I can't find any reference of "lexical" there. >>>=20 >>> Yes, I believe so. Language-specific header arguments for many languag= es are documented at https://orgmode.org/worg/org-contrib/babel/languages/i= ndex.html. Several languages are not documented there; in these cases the d= ocumentation is typically in the source code. >>=20 >> It is actually slightly awkward that built-in babel backends are not >> documented in the manual, while, for example, export backends are. >>=20 > Agreed, but the two differ. With export, the goal is to produce code rec= ognized as correct by the target software. With babel, the general goal is= to provide language agnostic literate programming, which often produces so= mething that meets standards of correctness not implemented in software. T= he idea of built-in babel backends, as distinct from contributed backends, = or backends distributed by package archive is a function of maintenance bur= den and distribution channel, rather than something intrinsic to the backen= d itself and how it contributes to literate programming. =20 >> However, unless my memory deceives me, Bastien or Nicolas previously >> voiced against adding babel documentation. Though I cannot find the >> relevant discussion now and cannot recall the arguments (if there was >> such discussion at all). >=20 > IIRC, there wasn't much discussion. The current situation doesn't seem = ripe for documentation in the manual. >=20 Agreed. Maybe it would suffice to use enhanced docstrings for the org-babel= -execute: functions and point to them in the manual. The params argument could list the language specific keys and the language = specific handling of key common to all languages (e.g. `:results graphics' = in R jumps through a number of hoops that might deserve mention) Chuck=20 > Here are some potential hurdles: > - there are likely too many built-in backends; > - the built-in backends are a mixed bag--ob-lua seems half-finished to me= , though I don't program in lua and struggled to set up the language to wri= te the documentation stub on Worg; > - nearly a dozen of the built-in babel backends lack documentation outsid= e the source code (see https://orgmode.org/worg/org-contrib/babel/languages= /index.html#orgbc466c5); and > - language support is inconsistent (see https://orgmode.org/worg/org-cont= rib/babel/languages/lang-compat.html), which introduces complications for l= anguage agnostic literate programming. >=20 > One way forward might distinguish between babel backends for GNU software= and babel backends for non-GNU software, with the former built in, guarant= eed to be consistent to some standard (which needs to be formulated), and d= ocumented in the manual and the latter moved to contrib or a package archiv= e, with documentation (if any) on Worg. >=20 > Others might have better ideas. >=20 > All the best, > Tom > --=20 > Thomas S. Dye > https://tsdye.online/tsdye >=20 >=20