From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 From: Rainer Stengele Subject: Re: Org-mode versus Taskpaper - now for real Date: Tue, 01 Apr 2008 13:39:34 +0200 Message-ID: <47F21EF6.3050002@diplan.de> References: <0277B507-1486-4172-B1C6-1B73B84148DD@science.uva.nl> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Return-path: Received: from mailman by lists.gnu.org with tmda-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1Jgeq5-0003ZA-3r for emacs-orgmode@gnu.org; Tue, 01 Apr 2008 07:39:41 -0400 Received: from exim by lists.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1Jgepz-0003XU-84 for emacs-orgmode@gnu.org; Tue, 01 Apr 2008 07:39:39 -0400 Received: from [199.232.76.173] (helo=monty-python.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Jgepz-0003XP-3A for emacs-orgmode@gnu.org; Tue, 01 Apr 2008 07:39:35 -0400 Received: from ns.diplan.de ([212.34.188.4] helo=mail.diplan.de) by monty-python.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.60) (envelope-from ) id 1Jgepy-0001Ff-LW for emacs-orgmode@gnu.org; Tue, 01 Apr 2008 07:39:34 -0400 In-Reply-To: <0277B507-1486-4172-B1C6-1B73B84148DD@science.uva.nl> List-Id: "General discussions about Org-mode." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: emacs-orgmode-bounces+geo-emacs-orgmode=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Errors-To: emacs-orgmode-bounces+geo-emacs-orgmode=m.gmane.org@gnu.org To: Carsten Dominik Cc: emacs-orgmode Mailinglist Dear Carsten, I was terribly shocked for about 18 seconds - my brain storming through thoughts about protesting and forking the project and what else... But as I am too convinced of the useful features of Org it became clear in a moment Next year same day will be a very interesting date to look again over a year of Org news. Keep up the good work! Rainer Carsten Dominik schrieb: > > Dear all, > > I hope that you will all forgive me my little joke. It worked so > well because there is a certain amount of truth in the matter, of > course, and I would like to address this in a more serious > manner. > > Org-mode has indeed become very feature-rich in the run of the > years. However, while adding features, more often than not > triggered but lots of truly excellent suggestions on this forum, > I have been using one principle as the overruling requirement for > Org-mode: That the simple stuff should remain simple, that no > part of the complexity is forced on the user. If you think I > have failed to live up to this, I definitely would like to know > about it. > > The important point I would like to make here is that for all > intents and purposes, Org-mode *is* taskpaper! It is a > zero-setup, totally simple TODO manager that works with plain > files, files that can be edited on pretty much any system out > there, either as plain text in *any* editor, or using Emacs which > runs everywhere. To follow the taskpaper webpage, open a file > tasks.org and type > > * Project 1 > ** TODO task1 > ** DONE task2 > > * Project 2 > ** TODO task 3 > ** TODO task 5 > > You can add tags by hand, get lists for certain tags as sparse > trees, it really is totally as simple as taskpaper in every way! > > Of course, Org-mode allows you to do more, but I would hope in a > non-imposing way! It has lots of features under the hood that > you can pull in when you are ready, when you find out that there > is something more you'd like to do. > > My ideal picture would be that newcomers indeed use Org-mode as a > simple outliner and list manager. And then, that they find > themselves often in a situation where they think "Gee, I wish I > could to this", they open the manual and, voila, yes, I can! > > So the complexity of Org-mode is, as I see it, mostly a problem > of perception rather than a real issue. How can this be > addressed? As the author of the manual I see it as my task to > document Org-mode compactly and as completely as possible. So > the full set of features will hit you when reading the manual. > This is why I have asked, so often, for people to write more > tutorials, describe a simple setup they use on the web, to > re-enforce the notion that Org-mode really the most simple system > out there. Initially. > > It seems to me that Merlin Mann in his review of Taskpaper has > hit the nail on the head (he always does). What is so great > about taskpaper that it is (so far?) almost fiddle-proof. It is > a list, and there is no way to fiddle with it. People who use > fiddling with the TODO system as a way to procrastinate can > clearly benefit from such a system. I am for sure the biggest > example of a person who uses fiddling in that way. But: Hey, we > use Emacs *because* it allows us to fiddle, to get things right, > the way *we* want it. > > The problem with a program like taskpaper is that you will > eventually be hit by its limitations. The day comes when you > need to clock the working time on a task, when you wish you > could record a link to that email that triggered the task, when > you would like to put the task list on an internal webpage, and > make it look pretty too. And then you cannot, you need to get an > external program to do the timing, you need to copy your list > into a web editor to make it look nice, and you need to find that > email back by hand. > > What people miss when they are new to Org-mode is this: > > Don't try to set up the "final" task managing system from the > start. Because you have no idea yet what your system should look > like. Don't set up many TODO states and logging initially, > before you actually have a feeling for what you working flow is. > Don't define a context tag "@computer" just because David Allen > has one, even though you are sitting at a computer all the time > anyway! Start by creating and managing a small TODO list and > then develop your own system as the needs arises. I wrote > Org-mode to enable this development process. > > > Happy April fools day! > > - Car > > > _______________________________________________ > Emacs-orgmode mailing list > Remember: use `Reply All' to send replies to the list. > Emacs-orgmode@gnu.org > http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/emacs-orgmode >