From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mp0 ([2001:41d0:8:6d80::]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits)) by ms0.migadu.com with LMTPS id iJMSMfr1o2E5GgEAgWs5BA (envelope-from ) for ; Sun, 28 Nov 2021 22:34:50 +0100 Received: from aspmx1.migadu.com ([2001:41d0:8:6d80::]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits)) by mp0 with LMTPS id ePnULPr1o2FcOAAA1q6Kng (envelope-from ) for ; Sun, 28 Nov 2021 21:34:50 +0000 Received: from lists.gnu.org (lists.gnu.org [209.51.188.17]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by aspmx1.migadu.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 9B8FFBD52 for ; Sun, 28 Nov 2021 22:34:49 +0100 (CET) Received: from localhost ([::1]:39750 helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1mrRos-00082l-OA for larch@yhetil.org; Sun, 28 Nov 2021 16:34:46 -0500 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([209.51.188.92]:42400) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1mrRoT-00082H-IT for emacs-orgmode@gnu.org; Sun, 28 Nov 2021 16:34:21 -0500 Received: from relay2-d.mail.gandi.net ([217.70.183.194]:42209) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1mrRoP-0001Gj-K9 for emacs-orgmode@gnu.org; Sun, 28 Nov 2021 16:34:21 -0500 Received: (Authenticated sender: lists@traduction-libre.org) by relay2-d.mail.gandi.net (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id A6A9A40004; Sun, 28 Nov 2021 21:34:11 +0000 (UTC) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 14.0 \(3654.120.0.1.13\)) Subject: Re: "Orgdown", the new name for the syntax of Org-mode From: Jean-Christophe Helary In-Reply-To: <2021-11-28T20-44-37@devnull.Karl-Voit.at> Date: Mon, 29 Nov 2021 06:34:07 +0900 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: <33B34C2A-DAE2-4C8E-91EE-7362ED9811A0@traduction-libre.org> References: <2021-11-28T20-44-37@devnull.Karl-Voit.at> To: Karl Voit X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3654.120.0.1.13) Received-SPF: pass client-ip=217.70.183.194; envelope-from=lists@traduction-libre.org; helo=relay2-d.mail.gandi.net X-Spam_score_int: -25 X-Spam_score: -2.6 X-Spam_bar: -- X-Spam_report: (-2.6 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H3=-0.01, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=-0.01, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: emacs-orgmode@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "General discussions about Org-mode." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Cc: emacs-orgmode@gnu.org Errors-To: emacs-orgmode-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org Sender: "Emacs-orgmode" X-Migadu-Flow: FLOW_IN ARC-Message-Signature: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=yhetil.org; s=key1; t=1638135290; h=from:from:sender:sender:reply-to:subject:subject:date:date: message-id:message-id:to:to:cc:cc:mime-version:mime-version: content-type:content-type: content-transfer-encoding:content-transfer-encoding: in-reply-to:in-reply-to:references:references:list-id:list-help: list-unsubscribe:list-subscribe:list-post; bh=kvVu/aNDXJVH9f4+8BimDqFT+VdEdWxPUdH1HDKmYWc=; b=ZYZxd7KX54nB19sLaKhj3/M6/DfM2gQttdSXIvolB4UkpUi4XFFCQXdfPJFMF3TliMhpK2 8SMLyieTycmXUFU0qX5EjRheWAbhJTd5BGKDzg+vYXIw22X4i7z6XzXzl6UMtC/PiWReYl eU+Qso/Aqut6sJzRtVRSYqMpGEWsvPiJCNZWGtL6u5PPDtzZO1kHBO62CxxwUZQOe1TDZH 2KVnYx3+eCZAFcI/dRPjwnKH4xTWAU52p3ZG7Qinup8U0JhnsjemX9H4idppJqyqEQ5pMX fJqDDlw4S3+3StL69mo/LtT8z9iaKLeGlD2qXV/eBmGZ9BAsOHYX6JOH4Eqv6Q== ARC-Seal: i=1; s=key1; d=yhetil.org; t=1638135290; a=rsa-sha256; cv=none; b=Uh7/OekfxxHinVz8fhnosHa47wOWBkOY3gxjg/iXt/Cy+/vC8V6JHCynSLsiVlHC01A17S a6ym+J+X7Lms4FLaCPKzBZjYxVB/AMwI/EDRarsqLYWO+Pe5NgOdruODTw2G1b5CnMsEWI A6sfRl0fNaV/xrSyb5J1nOn8r7NQKr2ZMN345iUu1WxUvVYLcWI/+76tYmxUkF/qrw690I 11gz+h//G+GhfRSi1FWnXMezbgkrz4GAoFf50B+MkMZ5gNzfb2ME8CMwvHEXqHD8HPopln 1gxIxtN6nOC1uaN+yIewBG5yQK8ZO6OscgJv2neE0i14t0elJ6zE3zERSR8YNQ== ARC-Authentication-Results: i=1; aspmx1.migadu.com; dkim=none; dmarc=none; spf=pass (aspmx1.migadu.com: domain of emacs-orgmode-bounces@gnu.org designates 209.51.188.17 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=emacs-orgmode-bounces@gnu.org X-Migadu-Spam-Score: -2.51 Authentication-Results: aspmx1.migadu.com; dkim=none; dmarc=none; spf=pass (aspmx1.migadu.com: domain of emacs-orgmode-bounces@gnu.org designates 209.51.188.17 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=emacs-orgmode-bounces@gnu.org X-Migadu-Queue-Id: 9B8FFBD52 X-Spam-Score: -2.51 X-Migadu-Scanner: scn1.migadu.com X-TUID: JYvomvM3atz/ Considering the total incompatibility between markdown and org-mode it = does not seem to me that =E2=80=99orgdown=E2=80=99 is a useful name. It = will only confuse people and generate useless comments and = counter-comments wherever org-mode syntax is mentioned. Org-mode and its syntax bring users functions that are vastly superior = to whatever markdown does, and we should not forget that markdown=E2=80=99= s originator (at least the one who is still alive today) pretty much = systematically despises free software and the free software movement on = his blog=E2=80=A6 Jean-Christophe Helary > On Nov 29, 2021, at 4:46, Karl Voit wrote: >=20 > Hi Org-mode community, >=20 > At this year's EmascsConf, I had a 12 minute video where I explain why > we do need a different name for the syntax of Org-mode in contrast to > the Elisp implementation of GNU/Emacs Org-mode. >=20 > I would like you to read my rationale and motivate you to use the term > "Orgdown" for the syntax and "Orgdown1" for the first (very basic) > level of Orgdown syntax elements. >=20 > - The EmacsConf21 talk: https://emacsconf.org/2021/talks/org-outside > - Orgdown site: https://gitlab.com/publicvoit/orgdown (please = contribute!) > - My motivation article: https://karl-voit.at/2021/11/27/orgdown/ > - This is the longer version of my 12 minute EmacsConf21 video. > - My personal copy of the video: = https://tube.graz.social/w/bgJVfjPLQAoJwLJQZoo3Hu >=20 >=20 > Just as a sneak preview (not as a replacement for my motivation = article): >=20 > Orgdown is and will be defined in a set of levels, starting with very > basic Orgdown1 (or OD1 or O=E2=86=931 or =E2=A7=AC1 - depending on = your coolness > factor of choice :-) ) >=20 > - OD1 =E2=86=92 = https://gitlab.com/publicvoit/orgdown/-/blob/master/doc/Orgdown-Levels.org= > - OD2 =E2=86=92 will be defined in future > - OD3 =E2=86=92 will be defined in future > - ... > - OD=E2=88=9E =3D Org-mode (by definition) >=20 > Any OD-level needs to be compatible with Org-mode as implemented in > Elisp for GNU/Emacs Org-mode according to https://orgmode.org. Any ODx > is a sub-set of the syntax elements of ODy (with y>x). >=20 > With introducing a new term specific for the syntax, we do get the > benefit of getting a better way to handle Org-mode support in > 3rd-party tools such as listed on > = https://gitlab.com/publicvoit/orgdown/-/blob/master/doc/Tool-Support.org > (please extend!). >=20 > Having a well-defined sub-set of Org-mode, I also do think that formal > definitions of the Org-mode syntax will be easier to develop, starting > with the very simple OD1 level. >=20 > It would be awesome if we start referring to syntax support in > 3rd-party tools with the corresponding OD levels. >=20 > I want to emphasize that the goal of Orgdown is NOT and will never be > something that is an alternative to our golden standard Org-mode. We > will try hard not to get into the Markdown situation where you need to > know the exact flavor of the markup in order to produce text. >=20 > So far, the response was great at the conference and I do hope that > this idea will get a life of its own, developing the standard further, > bringing this magnificent lightweight markup to the digital world. > This also eases some pain for users of GNU/Emacs when it comes to > exchanging text-based data. >=20 > Thanks for your support here! >=20 >=20 > --=20 > Personal Information Management > http://Karl-Voit.at/tags/pim/ > Emacs-related > http://Karl-Voit.at/tags/emacs/ --=20 Jean-Christophe Helary @brandelune https://mac4translators.blogspot.com https://sr.ht/~brandelune/omegat-as-a-book/