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([2601:192:80:10c0::4744]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id cc18-20020a05622a411200b0031b7441b02asm1788486qtb.89.2022.06.27.18.46.34 for (version=TLS1_3 cipher=TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 bits=128/128); Mon, 27 Jun 2022 18:46:34 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <3395b4b8-26e0-9bf0-b0c6-b8a0a4edc254@ctpowe.net> Date: Mon, 27 Jun 2022 21:46:32 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 10.0; Win64; x64; rv:91.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/91.10.0 Subject: Re: Links to javascript-based websites from orgmode.org: Paypal and Github Content-Language: en-US To: emacs-orgmode@gnu.org References: <0472f849f3ae42df68b0f031d61594d9@posteo.de> <87ilt3yvqj.fsf@localhost> <877d9j3u91.fsf@localhost> <17c95e5a298c213c63b6f7ac9f05aac4@posteo.de> <87y21z2d2b.fsf@localhost> <871qzqg81c.fsf@gnu.org> <87r17q2n3i.fsf@localhost> <877d9ij990.fsf@gnu.org> <87iloyyd1y.fsf@localhost> <87r13kxh60.fsf@localhost> <87o7ydk4xi.fsf@gmail.com> From: Michael Powe Organization: The Hospice of the Mind In-Reply-To: <87o7ydk4xi.fsf@gmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Received-SPF: none client-ip=2607:f8b0:4864:20::f34; envelope-from=powem@ctpowe.net; helo=mail-qv1-xf34.google.com X-Spam_score_int: -18 X-Spam_score: -1.9 X-Spam_bar: - X-Spam_report: (-1.9 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, NICE_REPLY_A=-0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_NONE=0.001, T_SCC_BODY_TEXT_LINE=-0.01 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: emacs-orgmode@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "General discussions about Org-mode." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-orgmode-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org Sender: "Emacs-orgmode" X-Migadu-Flow: FLOW_IN X-Migadu-To: larch@yhetil.org X-Migadu-Country: US ARC-Message-Signature: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=yhetil.org; s=key1; t=1656380857; h=from:from:sender:sender:reply-to:subject:subject:date:date: message-id:message-id:to:to:cc:mime-version:mime-version: content-type:content-type: content-transfer-encoding:content-transfer-encoding: in-reply-to:in-reply-to:references:references:list-id:list-help: list-unsubscribe:list-subscribe:list-post:dkim-signature; bh=v0mLpegPMHYZ5UUIXPuv3QQ9m0323ktb+WdiKXCqe5k=; b=WfuQ+qMJ1cM0oYMGbozV4XVyl2kiISl+95BePyTwCXosqCDT4HScNDlXB+tdHOz55alTHH t5PE4wtqizn5q+TCzMyj6/0OJjJ7dXbbPP+fmwk0LS4bsqRuoU/8EabLVqlUZ60MDYhYzQ 6raSsue6rudPfpAfe5K1uvILoEygCGYThYZ6OBuaa1RVIU2RtKRC7LS99OPtHMoMGolVBG H+etZxeEtPWJP+n9lk3ZQ9UiFAaDxFu1AjImpCPZIA+uDJqal2kIw/PVvdm9G9rHqNmjXo /5UEfh652hJcjhhIyr95Rk1hGfLr/uPROfzF/dIWojpAdlMzxPluWhIcZ+Osxg== ARC-Seal: i=1; s=key1; d=yhetil.org; t=1656380857; a=rsa-sha256; cv=none; b=q8nA8uXDFh+WU7PJLWVh0jtnk/wuQdaM1o4tIS5xaftUJk2kEeHPZArw7wjRC6jnjJeLpP wiU722DWbD4drsBfGxTE8wMEWYWTp04yrLi56P7EJJFjB5vd7xb4XpIaOsfQFnV2IeUxrG MYIyV5hLBcHCsXs9tcGyBkhtZOlqiKYFqGUBEQzQZeINnmwMe/P35rK/4IDT68/tFssPRI Dc+UTd4LXFK8V7XUlhsBchqFgCqqHFeiz2EofgDmFdVOpozsO4rdfQjTmU8l5GTjm9dX4a 0mHwJcucudvXsorRlmXOX6WTj3VmL9MQ2DDw1ypdj9RCSnbelph+ktGGrTxEDg== ARC-Authentication-Results: i=1; aspmx1.migadu.com; dkim=pass header.d=ctpowe-net.20210112.gappssmtp.com header.s=20210112 header.b=X6+6ZzOE; dmarc=none; spf=pass (aspmx1.migadu.com: domain of "emacs-orgmode-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org" designates 209.51.188.17 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom="emacs-orgmode-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org" X-Migadu-Spam-Score: -4.25 Authentication-Results: aspmx1.migadu.com; dkim=pass header.d=ctpowe-net.20210112.gappssmtp.com header.s=20210112 header.b=X6+6ZzOE; dmarc=none; spf=pass (aspmx1.migadu.com: domain of "emacs-orgmode-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org" designates 209.51.188.17 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom="emacs-orgmode-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org" X-Migadu-Queue-Id: 21F9B217C8 X-Spam-Score: -4.25 X-Migadu-Scanner: scn0.migadu.com X-TUID: e6EoZvwJu9wG On 6/27/2022 19:42, Tim Cross wrote: > Tom Gillespie writes: > >>> GNU packages should not steer people towards running nonfree software. >>> As a consequence, they should not suggest people donate using payment services >>> that _require_ the donor to run a nonfree program. >> A slight variant of Ihor's question. >> >> While GNU packages should not steer people toward nonfree software, >> I assume that there is nothing that prohibits GNU contributors from >> accepting donations via non-free systems. >> >> This thread suggests that it is no other option if devs also do not want >> to steer people toward cryptocurrencies (which some consider to be as >> ethically important as not steering people toward nonfree software). >> >> My question is whether the website for a GNU package can include links >> to the websites of individual developers with a note that you can provide >> financial support to the project by supporting individuals. In the end the >> user still winds up using nonfree JS, but is GNU living up to its principles >> by virtue of the extra layer of indirection? >> >> Given that https://www.fsf.org/about/ways-to-donate/ does include paypal >> as an option, with a disclaimer, is a disclaimer not a sufficient solution for >> GNU packages as well? > Given that the FSF has a link to PayPal on their donations page , I > think we can do the same for the org project. All that is required is > that we do like the FSF does and put a bit of text beside it stating > "Not recommended - requires nonfree Javascript". We should also include > a postal address where people could send in donations to provide an > alternative for those who really don't want to use the non-free service > (which doens't have to be paypal of course - any of them would likely be > as good). You don't chop down a tree by snipping off the branches at the top. Anyone completely serious about a refusal to use nonfree tools for making donations will send a check in the mail, literally. I raised the point about FSF using PayPal months ago, when this thread started. The response was thunderous silence. I don't like PP as a company. Its profits finance the activities of some truly repugnant people. The JS connection widget is about the most innocuous bit of that company. I only use PP when a CC won't work - mostly, buying overseas, which purchases my bank blocks without exception. No business from which I purchase regularly uses any other payment service. That's the reality of the commercialization of the internet. It blows chunks, but here we are. I don't want to hear about ethical purity from people using products made by Apple, one of the most corrupt and corrupting companies on the planet; or, from those who shop at Amazon - ditto. I've never purchased a book from Amazon, but three times I've purchased products through its "marketplace," and I used to subscribe to its Prime video service. I don't buy products made in China (e.g., clothes, ceramics). But, it's impossible to write this message without using products made there. These kinds of casual lapses of ethical behavior are organic to our present network design. If someone finds a payment processor that uses free software, and is available for users in the US, I certainly will sign up for it. That the FSF isn't using one suggests such services are thin on the ground, or nonexistent. Thanks. mp -- "Do not neglect to do good, and to share what you have." - Hebrews 13:16a Michael Powe Naugatuck CT USA powem@ctpowe.net