From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 From: David Libert Subject: Using org-mode and git to make a wiki Date: Wed, 17 Jun 2009 03:09:55 -0400 Message-ID: <30672390906170009s43afecb8w7ef92e6a48257273@mail.gmail.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============0031505081==" Return-path: Received: from mailman by lists.gnu.org with tmda-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1MGpHW-0003Q9-RW for emacs-orgmode@gnu.org; Wed, 17 Jun 2009 03:10:02 -0400 Received: from exim by lists.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1MGpHS-0003N6-30 for emacs-orgmode@gnu.org; Wed, 17 Jun 2009 03:10:02 -0400 Received: from [199.232.76.173] (port=42451 helo=monty-python.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1MGpHR-0003N3-Tp for emacs-orgmode@gnu.org; Wed, 17 Jun 2009 03:09:57 -0400 Received: from mx20.gnu.org ([199.232.41.8]:16053) by monty-python.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS-1.0:RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:32) (Exim 4.60) (envelope-from ) id 1MGpHR-0007Mc-14 for emacs-orgmode@gnu.org; Wed, 17 Jun 2009 03:09:57 -0400 Received: from mail-yx0-f177.google.com ([209.85.210.177]) by mx20.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.60) (envelope-from ) id 1MGpHQ-0001u7-CZ for emacs-orgmode@gnu.org; Wed, 17 Jun 2009 03:09:56 -0400 Received: by yxe7 with SMTP id 7so99109yxe.24 for ; Wed, 17 Jun 2009 00:09:55 -0700 (PDT) List-Id: "General discussions about Org-mode." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: emacs-orgmode-bounces+geo-emacs-orgmode=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Errors-To: emacs-orgmode-bounces+geo-emacs-orgmode=m.gmane.org@gnu.org To: emacs-orgmode@gnu.org --===============0031505081== Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=0016e644c37e76d5bd046c85fa58 --0016e644c37e76d5bd046c85fa58 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hello: I only started learning about org-mode in the last few days. I have been reading documentation about it and am very impressed by the system. I have been wondering about the possibilties if using org-mode and git to run an improved style of wiki. I will give some details below. This could be a point of discusion here in the mailing list, or else some of us could quickly try to set something up along these lines. If people here express interest I may set up one myself. I will open discussion by noting some background about myself. I had heard of wikis in general for some time and had read some and followed them. Then in the last couple of weeks I started two wikis of my own, in Wkispaces. You can link to those from my web page in the signature below. After a small bit of writing into my Wikispaces wikis I explored around in the world of wikis, and came upon org-mode, from the point of view of running it as a wiki. I am very impressed by org-mode, I think it is the best wiki style system I have seen so far. I was thinking what an impovement it would be over regular wikis, if they could be running in org-mode, with all the outlining features. And how great for the writer to be composing messages in emacs instead of a crude online editor, such as the one at Wikispaces. Then it occurred to me there would such an easy way to get all that with existing programs. Unlike a true wiki, don't read it over the web. Instead have a local copy, so your own local emacs in org-mode can process it, even for reading. That way, the writer is allowed to assume the readers will have all the org-mode functionality in reading. Use git for transport. The "wiki" would be distibuted across a peer-to-peer network, with git pushes and pulls. So you don't need to be an instution like Wikisaces to set this up. You don't need a server. An ordinary pc could seed the wiki by providing a first node. The distrbution would give redundancy and security, ie against data loss. Wikis in general need history and version control. So why not make it the best (in my opinion anyway) version control with git. So make the wiki the best editor (emacs) and make the version control be the best version control (git). And the best wiki system (org-mode). I found in the org-mode home page the worg project, which is smilar to this. A git repository, and writers contribute to worg through git. But worg publishes the org-mode as html and in the end serves it up as a web page. I propose we never go to html. Stay in emacs and org-mode the whole time. So you know your readers have the full functionality of org-mode to be reading your writing. I could see this as taking over the world. Not realistically, I know in the real world there is too much intertia and most people are slow to change. But in terms of making a usable system that I would like to use in a community. For example, instead of conventional email, with individuals who I was already closely collaborasting with, I would like to have a shared space like this with only the pair of us having read and write access. In a group of only two we could have push and pull permission with each other. So instead of sending an email, you would write a note into a new file or edit it into an esiting one, commit and push. On the other side, there could be scripts to alert you when that dedicated git repositiry has been updated, giving you the equaivalent of "you have new mail". But all the collarabateed email would be together in an org directory, and we could use org to organaze it and structure it, including by refactoring after the fact. So the final result could be more strcutred than a mailbox. It would be easy to forward mail. Each mail corrspondent could have their own directory of org-mode files in a git repostory. To forward mail, you open both respositrories, each ion their own firectory, then just use emacs to copy an org-mode file between directories. Or if you did individual messages inside a larger file as a heading, yank that and copy to another buffer into another directory. Then commit and push in the second directory. You could have a main index org file in the mail directory, which would be like a mail box lisitng in refular email. And the users could manually put an opening line linking to the new message. These could be editted in manually blog style at the top of the list. So the recipeitn could easily find new messages. And as tyhe index grew it could be archived by org-mode. making a permanent index of all mail. But other indexes could be added later grouping like messages tofether by making new lists of links. Or use org-mode tags. The full power of org-mode to refactor. What you don't have in ordinary email. And git provides protection against mistakes or bad deletions and so on. Similarly a small group could make a group version of this. A group of friends who want to share all messages. Or a work group. And similarly, a system like this could replace mailing lists or discussion groups. For susbsription only groups, and adminstrator could give out permissions for appropriate git access. For an open puiblic group, just put up the url for the git repository in a public place, likie a web page, or in messages of other newsgroups and so on. Anyone reading that link to the respository, if they are willing to run the correct software (git, emacs, org-mode) could pull and read. Writing is a bit triickier. The group could include members that would list themselves as volunteers to welcome newbies. They could include email addresses, and newbie could email in a request for a pull, giving their own public respositry they set up. The old timers would be crosslinked with a systems of pulls and pushes. Or else a special resosptiry coukld be set up the universal push permission. Once a newbie has written once into the "wiki", they could include their repo in a list in the wiki, and then they are in better. You could have many of these, on specialized topics. As with forwardiong email, articles could be moved betweren them by individuals. Or it would be easy to use git to merge two of these into one. You could also readily fork them, again using git. I could see systems like this as ideally replacing email, news, mailiong lists, regular wikis, and blogs. All the blogging functionality could be readily copied over into editting appropriately in org-mode. And new functions could be written for inside org-mode to automate certain uses like that. Of course big changes like that don't really happen. So what I really mean is I could see a small community arising using this. Anf I would like to be doing that myself, partially replacubg all thiose fucntions that way for myself, for while I was interacting wioth others doing it. The org-mode page could link to such pages, with some instruction to newbies, much as they presently host worg. Even if the official org-mode page didn't want to be involved in something like that, it could be a worthwhile starting project for any small group of individuals. I have been googling org-mode and git. I find things a bit like this, but never this idea of doing a sort of wiki like system enitrely inside org-mode, without export to html. -- David Libert email : libert.david@gmail.com web: http://web.ncf.ca/ah170/ --0016e644c37e76d5bd046c85fa58 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hello:

I only started learning about org-mode in the last few days.= =A0 I have been reading documentation about it and am very impressed by the= system.

I have been wondering about the possibilties if using org-m= ode and git to run an improved style of wiki.=A0 I will give some details b= elow.=A0 This could
be a point of discusion here in the mailing list, or else some of us could = quickly try to set something up along these lines.=A0 If people here expres= s
interest I may set up one myself.

I will open discussion by not= ing some background about myself.=A0 I had heard of wikis in general for so= me time and had read some and followed
them.=A0 Then in the last couple of weeks I started two wikis of my own,=A0= in Wkispaces.=A0 You can link to those from my web page in the signature=A0below.

After a small bit of writing into my Wikis= paces wikis I explored around in the world of wikis, and came upon org-mode= ,=A0 from the point of view
of running it as a wiki.=A0 I am very impressed by org-mode, I think it is = the best wiki style system I have seen so far.

I was thinking what a= n impovement it would be over regular wikis, if they could be running in or= g-mode, with all the outlining features.=A0 And how
great for the writer to be composing messages in emacs instead of a crude o= nline editor, such as the one at Wikispaces.

Then it occurred to me = there would such an easy way to get all that with existing programs.=A0 Unl= ike a true wiki, don't read it over the web.
Instead have a local copy, so your own local emacs in org-mode can process = it, even for reading.=A0 That way, the writer is allowed to assume
the r= eaders will have all the org-mode functionality in reading.

Use git = for transport.=A0 The "wiki" would be distibuted across a peer-to= -peer network, with git pushes and pulls.=A0 So you don't need to be an=
instution like Wikisaces to set this up.=A0 You don't need a server.=A0= An ordinary pc could seed the wiki by providing a first node.=A0 The distr= bution
would give redundancy and security, ie against data loss.

= Wikis in general need history and version control.=A0 So why not make it th= e best (in my opinion anyway) version control with git.=A0 So make the wiki=
the best editor=A0 (emacs)=A0 and make the version control be the best vers= ion control=A0 (git).=A0 And the best wiki system (org-mode).

I foun= d in the org-mode home page the=A0 worg project,=A0 which is smilar to this= .=A0 A git repository, and writers contribute to worg through git.=A0 But worg publishes the org-mode as html=A0 and in the end serves it up as a web= page.

I propose we never go to html.=A0 Stay in emacs and org-mode = the whole time.=A0 So you know your readers have the full functionality of = org-mode
to be reading your writing.

I could see this as taking over the worl= d.=A0 Not realistically, I know in the real world there is too much interti= a and most people are slow to change.
But in terms of making a usable sy= stem that I would like to use in a community.

For example, instead of conventional email, with individuals who I was = already closely collaborasting with, I would like to have a shared space li= ke
this with only the pair of us having read and write access.=A0 In a g= roup of only two we could have push and pull permission with each other.=A0= So
instead of sending an email,=A0 you would write a note into a new file or e= dit it into an esiting one, commit and push.=A0 On the other side, there co= uld
be scripts to alert you when that dedicated git repositiry has been = updated, giving you the equaivalent of=A0 "you have new mail".
But all the collarabateed email would be together in an org directory, = and we could use org to organaze it and structure it, including by refactor= ing
after the fact.=A0 So the final result could be more strcutred than = a mailbox.

It would be easy to forward mail.=A0 Each mail corrspondent could have = their own directory of org-mode files in a git repostory.=A0 To forward mai= l,
you open both respositrories, each ion their own firectory, then just= use emacs to copy an org-mode file between directories.=A0 Or if you did individual messages inside a larger file as a heading, yank that and copy t= o another buffer into another directory.=A0 Then commit and push in
the = second directory.

You could have a main index org file in the mail d= irectory, which would be like a mail box lisitng in refular email.=A0 And t= he users could manually
put an opening line linking to the new message.=A0 These could be editted i= n manually blog style at the top of the list.=A0 So the recipeitn could
= easily find new messages.=A0 And as tyhe index grew it could be archived by= org-mode.=A0 making a permanent index of all mail.

But other indexes could be added later=A0 grouping like messages tofeth= er by making new lists of links.=A0 Or use org-mode tags.=A0 The full power=
of org-mode to refactor.=A0 What you don't have in ordinary email.<= br>
And git provides protection against mistakes or bad deletions and so on.
Similarly a small group could make a group version of this.=A0 A group= of friends who want to share all messages.=A0 Or a work group.

And = similarly, a system like this could replace mailing lists or discussion gro= ups.=A0 For susbsription only groups, and adminstrator could give
out permissions for appropriate git access.=A0 For an open puiblic group, j= ust put up the url for the git repository in a public place, likie a webpage, or in messages of other newsgroups and so on.

Anyone reading = that link to the respository, if they are willing to run the correct softwa= re (git, emacs, org-mode)=A0 could pull and read.

Writing is a bit triickier.=A0 The group could include members that wou= ld list themselves as volunteers to welcome newbies.=A0 They could
inclu= de email addresses, and newbie could email in a request for a pull, giving = their own public respositry they set up.=A0 The old timers
would be crosslinked with a systems of pulls and pushes.

Or else a s= pecial resosptiry coukld be set up the universal push permission.

On= ce a newbie has written once into the "wiki",=A0 they could inclu= de their repo in a list in the wiki, and then they are in better.

You could have many of these, on specialized topics.=A0 As with forward= iong email, articles could be moved betweren them by individuals.
Or it = would be easy to use git to merge two of these into one.

You could a= lso readily fork them, again using git.

I could see systems like this as ideally replacing email, news, mailion= g lists, regular wikis, and blogs.=A0 All the blogging functionality could<= br>be readily copied over into editting appropriately in org-mode.

And new functions could be written for inside org-mode=A0 to automate certa= in uses like that.

Of course big changes like that don't really = happen.=A0 So what I really mean is I could see a small community arising u= sing this.=A0 Anf I would
like to be doing that myself, partially replacubg all thiose fucntions that= way for myself, for while I was interacting wioth others doing it.

= The org-mode page could link to such pages, with some instruction to newbie= s, much as they presently host worg.

Even if the official org-mode page didn't want to be involved in so= mething like that, it could be a worthwhile starting project for any small<= br>group of individuals.

I have been googling org-mode and git.=A0 I= find things a bit like this, but never this idea of doing a sort of wiki l= ike system enitrely inside org-mode,
without export to html.

--
David Libert
email : =A0 =A0libert.david@gmail.com
web: =A0 = =A0 http://web.ncf.ca/ah170/
--0016e644c37e76d5bd046c85fa58-- --===============0031505081== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline _______________________________________________ Emacs-orgmode mailing list Remember: use `Reply All' to send replies to the list. Emacs-orgmode@gnu.org http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/emacs-orgmode --===============0031505081==--