From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 From: Carsten Dominik Subject: Re: Re: IMPORTANT: (possibly) incompatible Change Date: Tue, 6 Apr 2010 18:23:21 +0200 Message-ID: <2D73D1C7-5BEF-46D2-9A56-4F4321005550@gmail.com> References: <86sk7gooh2.fsf@portan.ibr.cs.tu-bs.de> <3E3E058D-6BBD-4D9B-845D-3E13235EF0DC@gmail.com> <4BB3973D.3090305@comcast.net> <9667B267-935B-4DFB-800B-FC76DBCCBF28@gmail.com> <8739z8g3ul.fsf@ara.blue-cable.net> <871ves8t5f.fsf@ara.blue-cable.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v936) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed; delsp=yes Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Return-path: Received: from mailman by lists.gnu.org with tmda-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1NzBYy-0000hl-Ia for emacs-orgmode@gnu.org; Tue, 06 Apr 2010 12:23:40 -0400 Received: from [140.186.70.92] (port=41469 helo=eggs.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1NzBYx-0000gh-2o for emacs-orgmode@gnu.org; Tue, 06 Apr 2010 12:23:40 -0400 Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1NzBYu-0006kT-FS for emacs-orgmode@gnu.org; Tue, 06 Apr 2010 12:23:39 -0400 Received: from mail-ew0-f214.google.com ([209.85.219.214]:48783) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1NzBYu-0006kJ-2R for emacs-orgmode@gnu.org; Tue, 06 Apr 2010 12:23:36 -0400 Received: by ewy6 with SMTP id 6so36408ewy.32 for ; Tue, 06 Apr 2010 09:23:35 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <871ves8t5f.fsf@ara.blue-cable.net> List-Id: "General discussions about Org-mode." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: emacs-orgmode-bounces+geo-emacs-orgmode=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Errors-To: emacs-orgmode-bounces+geo-emacs-orgmode=m.gmane.org@gnu.org To: Karsten Heymann Cc: emacs-orgmode@gnu.org On Apr 6, 2010, at 6:03 PM, Karsten Heymann wrote: > Hi Carsten, > > Carsten Dominik writes: >> On Apr 6, 2010, at 2:30 PM, Karsten Heymann wrote: >>> Carsten Dominik writes: >>>> \usepackage[AUTO]{inputenc} >>>> \usepackage[T1]{fontenc} >>>> \usepackage{graphicx} >>>> \usepackage{longtable} >>>> \usepackage{float} >>>> \usepackage{wrapfig} >>>> \usepackage{soul} >>>> \usepackage{latexsym} >>>> \usepackage{amssymb} >>>> \usepackage{hyperref} >> >> Do you have any recommendations for the sequence in which these >> packages should be called? Or does that make no difference at all? >> Does any of these cause problems if they are called twice (say I >> add them, but users have them configured already?) > > The only critical one is hyperref, which should always be loaded last > (see > http://tug.ctan.org/tex-archive/macros/latex/contrib/hyperref/doc/manual.html#x1-30002) > . > >> What is is really changing due to these last two >> settings (microtype) and tolerance, could you explain in a bit more >> detail? > > I will try to explain it in my own poor words. microtype activates > advanced functions of the pdftex compiler (nowadays the standard TeX > compiler used by all distributions) to perform various subtle output > modifications, like shifting letters a tiny bit into the right > margin so > that the margin looks *visually* aligned. Also it stretches and pulls > letters for tiny amounts so words fit better into paragraphs without > standing into the margin. > > This is also the area where \tolerance takes action. It's a low level > TeX directive that controls how much the whitespace between words may > differ in width when typesetting a justified paragraph (I'm not sure > what the correct translation of the German word "Blocksatz" is). > It's a > number in the range between 0 and 9999 (plus the special 10.000 > meaning > infinite for TeX ;-) ). The standard value 200 is way much too > perfectionist for normal day-to-day typesetting, especially when > writing > in languages where typical words are much longer then in English, like > German for example. Normal Desktop Text processors always operate in > "10.000"-Mode, meaning there's an infinite amount of whitespace > allowed > between words, with the result of possibly large holes between the > words > to keep the right margin aligned. TeX on the other hand will deny to > typeset paragraphs when it cannot find a solution (for the full > paragraph!) inside it's tolerance limits and write words into the > right > margin so the author can manually fix the situation (rephrase, fix > hyphenation, ...). Tolerance values up to 2000 still look much better > than anything from Word/OOo and reduce the need to manually correct > these problems (and to explain this stuff to new users). > >> And: Can I expect fixltx2e to be present in all distributions? > > Yes, it's part of the latex base packages and thus always available > (given any not really really ancient LaTeX installation, e.g. more > than > a decade). > >> Is \tolerance defined in microtype, or did you put these together >> just >> incidentally? > > They are completely independent. Thanks a lot for all this, I will follow your advice. One final question: Will any of these packages spoil the fun for people who want to process through .dvi instead of directly to pdf? > >>> Karsten >> >> I really appreciate expert advice about this. Thank you. > > I'm more than glad my rusty LaTeX knowledge is of any use, > especially to > the awesome org-mode community (and it's even more awesome author). If > you want advice from some *real* experts, ask in the comp.text.tex or > the de.comp.text.tex newsgroup. That's a completely different level, > I'm > just some kind of semi-power-user that had too much time on > university. That is way more than I know about LaTeX/TeX internals, so fully appropriate here. Yes, comp.text.tex and de.comp.text.tex, I used to hang out there more while writing reftex.el and cdlatex.el, but always more as a reader than as a contributor. I loved to read these groups, that was always a high intensity place to be at. Thanks again. - Carsten