Re: can't see emphasized text in org

Re: can't see emphasized text in org

[Bastien]

Nick Dokos <nicholas.dokos@hp.com> writes:

> *Why* it falls back to underlining is probably a question
> that should be addressed to the emacs developers, but it looks like
> a bug to me (hence copied to the emacs bugs list - version info
> appended[2])

Wow, thanks for tracking this down!

I'm not sure I would consider the fallback on underline a bug.
As I understand it, the "italic" face is equivalent to the LaTeX
"emphasize" -- which means that the font has to be more readable
in any fashion, either by slanting the text or by underlining it.

This is an incorrect use of "italic" but I guess fixing this would 
break things backward.

Thanks again for the helpful information,

-- 
 Bastien

can't see emphasized text in org

[Daniel Goldin]

Non-programmer-type can't see markup like /this/ as emphasized. I looked through manual and searched web but found no answer.  Any thoughts?

d.

-- 
Daniel Goldin 
213.926.1960

Re: can't see emphasized text in org

[Nick Bell]

Daniel Goldin wrote:
> Non-programmer-type can't see markup like /this/ as emphasized. I looked 
> through manual and searched web but found no answer.  Any thoughts?
Are you using a font which has a separate italic form? Try switching to 
a font which you know does, such as Courier New.

Now wait for an expert to come along.

Re: can't see emphasized text in org

[Daniel Goldin]

Doesn't help, I'm afraid.

On Sun, 23 Aug 2009, Nick Bell wrote:

> Daniel Goldin wrote:
>> Non-programmer-type can't see markup like /this/ as emphasized. I 
>> looked through manual and searched web but found no answer.  Any 
>> thoughts?
> Are you using a font which has a separate italic form? Try switching to  
> a font which you know does, such as Courier New.
>
> Now wait for an expert to come along.
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Emacs-orgmode mailing list
> Remember: use `Reply All' to send replies to the list.
> Emacs-orgmode@gnu.org
> http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/emacs-orgmode

-- 
Daniel Goldin 
213.926.1960

Re: can't see emphasized text in org

[Nick Dokos]

Daniel Goldin <danielgoldin@gmail.com> wrote:

> On Sun, 23 Aug 2009, Nick Bell wrote:
> 
> > Daniel Goldin wrote:
> >> Non-programmer-type can't see markup like /this/ as emphasized. I
> >> looked through manual and searched web but found no answer.  Any
> >> thoughts?
> > Are you using a font which has a separate italic form? Try switching
> > to  a font which you know does, such as Courier New.
> >
> > Now wait for an expert to come along.
> >
> Doesn't help, I'm afraid.
>
 
I've seen this problem before and I never chased it down but when I saw
Nick Bell's idea, I figured that's got to be it. It *almost* works
but not quite (as Daniel found out).

If you enter /italic/ in an org buffer, place your cursor in there and
say M-x describe-text-properties, you get:

,----
| Text content at position 48:
| 
| 
| There are text properties here:
|   face                 (italic)
|   font-lock-multiline  t
|   fontified            t
`----

You can then M-x describe-face italic <RET>. For me, that had
the :underline attribute set, and the :slant attribute unset.
If you customize the face, set the :slant attribute (e.g. to italic)
and unset the :underline attribute and *then* change to a font that
provides an italic form, then /italic/ is indeed italicized.

The problem seems to be in faces.el:

,----
| (defface italic
|   '((((supports :slant italic))
|      :slant italic)
|     (((supports :underline t))
|      :underline t)
|     (t
|      ;; default to italic, even it doesn't appear to be supported,
|      ;; because in some cases the display engine will do it's own
|      ;; workaround (to `dim' on ttys)
|      :slant italic))
|   "Basic italic face."
|   :group 'basic-faces)
`----

which apparently looked at my default font[1], found that it does not
support italics but does support underlines and set the attributes
accordingly. *Why* it falls back to underlining is probably a question
that should be addressed to the emacs developers, but it looks like
a bug to me (hence copied to the emacs bugs list - version info appended[2])

HTH,
Nick

[1] I have

(set-default-font "-misc-fixed-medium-r-normal--15-120-100-100-c-90-iso8859-1")

in my .emacs. I think this is what used to be called "9x15" at some point in
the past, but I'm really not sure.


[2] Version info:

GNU Emacs 23.1.50.1 (i686-pc-linux-gnu, GTK+ Version 2.12.9) of 2009-08-09 on gamaville.dokosmarshall.org
Org-mode version 6.29trans (release_6.29c.55.ga48f)

Re: can't see emphasized text in org

[Nick Dokos]

Bastien <bastienguerry@googlemail.com> wrote:

> Nick Dokos <nicholas.dokos@hp.com> writes:
> 
> > *Why* it falls back to underlining is probably a question
> > that should be addressed to the emacs developers, but it looks like
> > a bug to me (hence copied to the emacs bugs list - version info
> > appended[2])
> 
> 
> I'm not sure I would consider the fallback on underline a bug.
> As I understand it, the "italic" face is equivalent to the LaTeX
> "emphasize" -- which means that the font has to be more readable
> in any fashion, either by slanting the text or by underlining it.
> 
> This is an incorrect use of "italic" but I guess fixing this would 
> break things backward.
> 

Yes, you may very well be right. I just thought I'd let the emacs
developers know about the possible confusion and deal with it as
they see fit. Maybe they'll choose to do nothing.

Nick

PS. BTW, I've deleted emacs-bugs from the CC list in this message, but
it's still in Bastien's message. Be careful about reply-all: you might
end up creating emacs bugs with every response. 

Also, btw, the bug report is at

      http://emacsbugs.donarmstrong.com/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=4242

Re: can't see emphasized text in org

[Daniel Goldin]

Finally got a chance to try this. Works like a charm! Thanks.

d.

On Sun, 23 Aug 2009, Nick Dokos wrote:

>Daniel Goldin <danielgoldin@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> On Sun, 23 Aug 2009, Nick Bell wrote:
>> 
>> > Daniel Goldin wrote:
>> >> Non-programmer-type can't see markup like /this/ as emphasized. I
>> >> looked through manual and searched web but found no answer.  Any
>> >> thoughts?
>> > Are you using a font which has a separate italic form? Try switching
>> > to  a font which you know does, such as Courier New.
>> >
>> > Now wait for an expert to come along.
>> >
>> Doesn't help, I'm afraid.
>>
> 
>I've seen this problem before and I never chased it down but when I saw
>Nick Bell's idea, I figured that's got to be it. It *almost* works
>but not quite (as Daniel found out).
>
>If you enter /italic/ in an org buffer, place your cursor in there and
>say M-x describe-text-properties, you get:
>
>,----
>| Text content at position 48:
>| 
>| 
>| There are text properties here:
>|   face                 (italic)
>|   font-lock-multiline  t
>|   fontified            t
>`----
>
>You can then M-x describe-face italic <RET>. For me, that had
>the :underline attribute set, and the :slant attribute unset.
>If you customize the face, set the :slant attribute (e.g. to italic)
>and unset the :underline attribute and *then* change to a font that
>provides an italic form, then /italic/ is indeed italicized.
>
>The problem seems to be in faces.el:
>
>,----
>| (defface italic
>|   '((((supports :slant italic))
>|      :slant italic)
>|     (((supports :underline t))
>|      :underline t)
>|     (t
>|      ;; default to italic, even it doesn't appear to be supported,
>|      ;; because in some cases the display engine will do it's own
>|      ;; workaround (to `dim' on ttys)
>|      :slant italic))
>|   "Basic italic face."
>|   :group 'basic-faces)
>`----
>
>which apparently looked at my default font[1], found that it does not
>support italics but does support underlines and set the attributes
>accordingly. *Why* it falls back to underlining is probably a question
>that should be addressed to the emacs developers, but it looks like
>a bug to me (hence copied to the emacs bugs list - version info appended[2])
>
>HTH,
>Nick
>
>[1] I have
>
>(set-default-font "-misc-fixed-medium-r-normal--15-120-100-100-c-90-iso8859-1")
>
>in my .emacs. I think this is what used to be called "9x15" at some point in
>the past, but I'm really not sure.
>
>
>[2] Version info:
>
>GNU Emacs 23.1.50.1 (i686-pc-linux-gnu, GTK+ Version 2.12.9) of 2009-08-09 on gamaville.dokosmarshall.org
>Org-mode version 6.29trans (release_6.29c.55.ga48f)

-- 
Daniel Goldin 
213.926.1960

Re: can't see emphasized text in org

[Nick Dokos]

I have the feeling that I am personally responsible for spamming the
emacs bug list. I made the mistake of cc'ing my original reply to that
list, so I suspect that everybody who replied to my original email
(including Daniel below) ended up creating another bogus bug report on
that list (maybe the list manager is smart enough to recognize that they
are all follow-ups to the original bug report and has tacked them on to
that - that's my hope but I haven't had the courage to check yet.)

I apologize for the stupidity and promise never to do it again, but I beg
you: if you feel like replying to anything on this thread, *please* edit
the CC list and delete bug-gnu-emacs from it.

Having had my fill of crow, I remain

Humble-pied-ly yours,
Nick

Daniel Goldin <danielgoldin@gmail.com> wrote:

> Finally got a chance to try this. Works like a charm! Thanks.
> 
> d.
> 
> On Sun, 23 Aug 2009, Nick Dokos wrote:
> 
> >Daniel Goldin <danielgoldin@gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> >> On Sun, 23 Aug 2009, Nick Bell wrote:
> >>
> >> > Daniel Goldin wrote:
> >> >> Non-programmer-type can't see markup like /this/ as emphasized. I
> >> >> looked through manual and searched web but found no answer.  Any
> >> >> thoughts?
> >> > Are you using a font which has a separate italic form? Try switching
> >> > to  a font which you know does, such as Courier New.
> >> >
> >> > Now wait for an expert to come along.
> >> >
> >> Doesn't help, I'm afraid.
> >>
> >
> >I've seen this problem before and I never chased it down but when I saw
> >Nick Bell's idea, I figured that's got to be it. It *almost* works
> >but not quite (as Daniel found out).
> >
> >If you enter /italic/ in an org buffer, place your cursor in there and
> >say M-x describe-text-properties, you get:
> >
> >,----
> >| Text content at position 48:
> > | | | There are text properties here:
> >|   face                 (italic)
> >|   font-lock-multiline  t
> >|   fontified            t
> >`----
> >
> >You can then M-x describe-face italic <RET>. For me, that had
> >the :underline attribute set, and the :slant attribute unset.
> >If you customize the face, set the :slant attribute (e.g. to italic)
> >and unset the :underline attribute and *then* change to a font that
> >provides an italic form, then /italic/ is indeed italicized.
> >
> >The problem seems to be in faces.el:
> >
> >,----
> >| (defface italic
> >|   '((((supports :slant italic))
> >|      :slant italic)
> >|     (((supports :underline t))
> >|      :underline t)
> >|     (t
> >|      ;; default to italic, even it doesn't appear to be supported,
> >|      ;; because in some cases the display engine will do it's own
> >|      ;; workaround (to `dim' on ttys)
> >|      :slant italic))
> >|   "Basic italic face."
> >|   :group 'basic-faces)
> >`----
> >
> >which apparently looked at my default font[1], found that it does not
> >support italics but does support underlines and set the attributes
> >accordingly. *Why* it falls back to underlining is probably a question
> >that should be addressed to the emacs developers, but it looks like
> >a bug to me (hence copied to the emacs bugs list - version info appended[2])
> >
> >HTH,
> >Nick
> >
> >[1] I have
> >
> >(set-default-font "-misc-fixed-medium-r-normal--15-120-100-100-c-90-iso8859-1")
> >
> >in my .emacs. I think this is what used to be called "9x15" at some point in
> >the past, but I'm really not sure.
> >
> >
> >[2] Version info:
> >
> >GNU Emacs 23.1.50.1 (i686-pc-linux-gnu, GTK+ Version 2.12.9) of 2009-08-09 on gamaville.dokosmarshall.org
> >Org-mode version 6.29trans (release_6.29c.55.ga48f)
> 
> -- 
> Daniel Goldin 213.926.1960
>