From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mp11.migadu.com ([2001:41d0:8:6d80::]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits)) by ms5.migadu.com with LMTPS id QF2OMyZUq2OyaQAAbAwnHQ (envelope-from ) for ; Tue, 27 Dec 2022 21:23:02 +0100 Received: from aspmx1.migadu.com ([2001:41d0:8:6d80::]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits)) by mp11.migadu.com with LMTPS id wEiHMyZUq2PmSwEA9RJhRA (envelope-from ) for ; Tue, 27 Dec 2022 21:23:02 +0100 Received: from lists.gnu.org (lists.gnu.org [209.51.188.17]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by aspmx1.migadu.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id ABC0A9B9C for ; Tue, 27 Dec 2022 21:23:01 +0100 (CET) Received: from localhost ([::1] helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1pAGSd-0005JK-Uq; Tue, 27 Dec 2022 15:22:07 -0500 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1pAGSc-0005J9-9m for emacs-orgmode@gnu.org; Tue, 27 Dec 2022 15:22:06 -0500 Received: from relay6-d.mail.gandi.net ([217.70.183.198]) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1pAGSa-0001P0-9X for emacs-orgmode@gnu.org; Tue, 27 Dec 2022 15:22:05 -0500 Received: (Authenticated sender: root@bitrot.link) by mail.gandi.net (Postfix) with ESMTPA id 1F238C0005 for ; Tue, 27 Dec 2022 20:22:00 +0000 (UTC) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=bitrot.link; s=gm1; t=1672172521; h=from:from:reply-to:subject:subject:date:date:message-id:message-id: to:to:cc:mime-version:mime-version:content-type:content-type: content-transfer-encoding:content-transfer-encoding: in-reply-to:in-reply-to:references:references; bh=+gw4+S0Bl4G1x188cci6wnv+HNTIniWqgWAtmaM3dLs=; b=NIwbCJjM0GGzip3jebvyJvvF27tm8E1USGwAZ8S9r38Eb3OMjgkX2IA89WsxpTeoq/N+BD 02zG0hrJDnu9uk8/NEHZws1j2gx+5ipIv2c3zW+Ji6K0iPqX1Q0/UV+CFjkKrKqmxAe2bK Di87P9HCSCFxaIaN+IiTIyDnsGO73LD1KitZLSMTltt9V3vo34eef9XRBaRK7+Tky7Ee0T hUYYNeBf8ImXAL0Pdz5CHkliFCfnV+35FVnf4bIK6EzfyqSr0iVNaAvPYPnrjoBPs0EDok aUJ+llVOQWRHqHkacStk9LcwM3gPBnOpNnawZJyISknTsk7NpSZgDaRRc/0k8g== MIME-Version: 1.0 Date: Tue, 27 Dec 2022 20:22:00 +0000 From: abq@bitrot.link To: emacs-orgmode@gnu.org Subject: Re: section continuation In-Reply-To: <9ceaa25e9e84c9c2db5cb385c51eb1db@bitrot.link> References: <2a8c15a7047e6dd4979b311a5c373255@bitrot.link> <9ceaa25e9e84c9c2db5cb385c51eb1db@bitrot.link> Message-ID: <248c92c57142c9119ce0b6f51b41da46@bitrot.link> X-Sender: abq@bitrot.link Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Received-SPF: pass client-ip=217.70.183.198; envelope-from=abq@bitrot.link; helo=relay6-d.mail.gandi.net X-Spam_score_int: -27 X-Spam_score: -2.8 X-Spam_bar: -- X-Spam_report: (-2.8 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: emacs-orgmode@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "General discussions about Org-mode." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-orgmode-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org Sender: emacs-orgmode-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org X-Migadu-Country: US X-Migadu-Flow: FLOW_IN ARC-Seal: i=1; s=key1; d=yhetil.org; t=1672172582; a=rsa-sha256; cv=none; b=DzsFGajr78+qsQ4D22g7qKk8aipmB1NNUm6IkiqlV2t7VAKjzfpUPz0awkDLKPWvs3eC7/ 03Vz2HyUr/y4Xwtu01Wzh0a2+vaqSUsOfRa1po6t78vTfZiaOEwYNRyfvM9CpyGBCcayRA U4Iyd3tTLYCz2tk+ihYAhrTMc/zPyhSMaeZXykkJYRuDwhajULZfY1P4XE+lqCjvVS9H7l rr0qqEf5j4f3L/LN7/lvlOvcpuPQeVQr+7dw/y0W3R2yRYWMCVEO+Rr9+jj8KawNc8DKyr 1096yV01zNHnXUMTBIsG96ejBdvMSaMk7OvqZVk5MEtzHzsW8Gq8K9H3AjfnMA== ARC-Authentication-Results: i=1; aspmx1.migadu.com; dkim=pass header.d=bitrot.link header.s=gm1 header.b=NIwbCJjM; spf=pass (aspmx1.migadu.com: domain of "emacs-orgmode-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org" designates 209.51.188.17 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom="emacs-orgmode-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org"; dmarc=none ARC-Message-Signature: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=yhetil.org; s=key1; t=1672172582; h=from:from:sender:sender:reply-to:subject:subject:date:date: message-id:message-id:to:to:cc:mime-version:mime-version: content-type:content-type: content-transfer-encoding:content-transfer-encoding: in-reply-to:in-reply-to:references:references:list-id:list-help: list-unsubscribe:list-subscribe:list-post:dkim-signature; bh=+gw4+S0Bl4G1x188cci6wnv+HNTIniWqgWAtmaM3dLs=; b=qNDl4Nu7LP0gbaaA6lk7rajtQ19qyRsjnYhxNRBAZNFmnLi1+1NaY1Q5GKa3vxeFKKohwb Qg4kt8t3AiB0IRXcOhamIifZNon3Rngde0PViqWpdQyAKPSW18W/O1+3nsfAh3+2CMXN0e XDoCl9hG0qiikhb5jow9y6/TjCcYSpEcchh73ZHgH3iFUwh4Ep/z48ms929fbJQ1Qc05jo IODUbK27Kxxj0qd6PXan/xxgk6/xi2Ei+QNYayJSgsCiZf8ySoDwwqFm2/prg9LcL72W7z Bbgk8K/+II3+4oySYlNgLcBrniHAowT6ZLRcPJNsqEw1yXxgf9X57X6Sdovq0A== X-Spam-Score: -5.75 X-Migadu-Queue-Id: ABC0A9B9C Authentication-Results: aspmx1.migadu.com; dkim=pass header.d=bitrot.link header.s=gm1 header.b=NIwbCJjM; spf=pass (aspmx1.migadu.com: domain of "emacs-orgmode-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org" designates 209.51.188.17 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom="emacs-orgmode-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org"; dmarc=none X-Migadu-Scanner: scn0.migadu.com X-Migadu-Spam-Score: -5.75 X-TUID: ThFhF5PuT7u2 tomas wrote: > To me, it would be less intuitive (the material under this > pseudo heading is intended to be level 1, not 2). So you might > like to add this to the costs. Or not, if that doesn't make > sense to you :) As previously written, yes, it can produce the wrong impression. But swap the lone-dash line and the blank line, and it produces the impression of a subsection terminator: * General animals Some text about general animals ** arthropods spiders and things ** - More about animals in general which has no impact on the proposed meaning or on how the software should handle it. Likewise no problem with terminating subsections that contain sub-subsections: * General animals Some text about general animals ** arthropods spiders and things *** venomous funnel web spider ** - More about animals in general < You had one more compelling downside of < dash (for dot: perhaps it looks too much like the ellipsis of a folded < subsection). I actually liked the comma, which has already a job as < an escape-character for line constructs in Org. Comma is good for suggesting continuation, if used the way you currently use dash. But if used the way I propose, and in particular considering the formatting above, does comma still seem best? If the better suggestion is termination (because the number of asterisks matches the section being terminated, not the section being continued), then period would be more effective. As for dot's conflict with ellipsis for folded subsections, the solution to that problem is to not use ellipsis. Better would be like graphical tree view systems do: a plus or minus sign inside a box icon to the left of the headline (in the gutter when not using org-indent-mode). This avoids the misleading dots that appear to be part of the text, and in org-indent-mode it avoids the misleading single asterisk. (In org-indent-mode, better to omit the asterisks entirely, and display just a plus/minus in a box icon.) Fortunately, this has no impact on Org's file format, except for the traditional ellipsis causing bias against choosing dot for the subsection termination character. Anyway... more important is how org-mode interprets it. First, tell everybody: If you want to avoid all this nonsense, then just don't ever use a lone-dash (or whatever it'll be) headline. Second, did I cover all the necessary changes to make section-continuation generally useful? I.e. Skip folding of lone-dash sections when folding all the sections at their level. Unfold them when unfolding the containing section. Skip them when jumping to next/previous section. Skip numbering them. Display them at one level shallower than currently standard in org-indent-mode. This differs from inline tasks, because the latter don't terminate the preceding section. And can anybody think of any costs besides the ones already mentioned? Any adverse interaction with other features?