From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mp0.migadu.com ([2001:41d0:303:e16b::]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits)) by ms13.migadu.com with LMTPS id 2LDgNlKDdmdkDgEAqHPOHw:P1 (envelope-from ) for ; Thu, 02 Jan 2025 12:15:15 +0000 Received: from aspmx1.migadu.com ([2001:41d0:303:e16b::]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits)) by mp0.migadu.com with LMTPS id 2LDgNlKDdmdkDgEAqHPOHw (envelope-from ) for ; Thu, 02 Jan 2025 13:15:14 +0100 X-Envelope-To: larch@yhetil.org Authentication-Results: aspmx1.migadu.com; dkim=pass header.d=gmail.com header.s=20230601 header.b="m1H0/Ziu"; spf=pass (aspmx1.migadu.com: domain of "emacs-orgmode-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org" designates 209.51.188.17 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom="emacs-orgmode-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org"; dmarc=pass (policy=none) header.from=gmail.com ARC-Message-Signature: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=yhetil.org; s=key1; t=1735820114; h=from:from:sender:sender:reply-to:subject:subject:date:date: message-id:message-id:to:to:cc:cc:mime-version:mime-version: content-type:content-type:in-reply-to:in-reply-to: references:references:list-id:list-help:list-unsubscribe: list-subscribe:list-post:dkim-signature; bh=T0ZmzL0OFoMgxcZ991JHIw/aVkMyFe769sh0dauRa8I=; b=ty/l/poUkXAD51Sw6Lk0Z5nkrR0ODA10BWE/WofXtfETYh1JYdh8T1dJT7d3i1pkG1mqbm 1mTyFqJGSah+aNJrRyGHgWDyRbsP5fmYRlaUAJNC4I81B0e5MTOsv+4nOAKg75jlfpf2pz t40/NtEw8+TS4sq5/nDIYasaDLdztS2nRzE0hXhquzewbVLzKFfeWgrVDYmcAGVFREITot 9zG8P8RazKd7CB+PVF4A4VEeDr4Epr0zJcXqFMBJNP27EnF9Ha6ip1/Ic9IrPiMrkPf06a aOjhMmeFIeltXB80SfcCS/LWP4QL41Elssse3eihcMx7lgRWfNYA07YxRnk+1w== ARC-Authentication-Results: i=1; aspmx1.migadu.com; dkim=pass header.d=gmail.com header.s=20230601 header.b="m1H0/Ziu"; spf=pass (aspmx1.migadu.com: domain of "emacs-orgmode-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org" designates 209.51.188.17 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom="emacs-orgmode-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org"; dmarc=pass (policy=none) header.from=gmail.com ARC-Seal: i=1; s=key1; d=yhetil.org; t=1735820114; a=rsa-sha256; cv=none; b=pvPKYlNIQEEDIYwLIzbCG7A8VuQTfRVcm4lxF0wB9hWcZ15gS+BBoDtKIldqo4nswh6HlN t6e0X+Mlqir+RzRQS1PcaMBUKq3s7ZrtBWiAD0AYdNd8vEwP+UqLSD99OdiKY0MUH76Xpl CShHtp4JrtFi568RDWbjx6p5O3lsR9X44tzdn4A6I1k8uPu8BltpB0if3vBT6RavsLvtLh MrdJetGytyBchm3RsWBBur5deBPM5b9BJc2DGkJkeQvCvw/sPiGmYVSh1Z5jVKAs35bECW Lhe6QVCfHUOET57hgSoG8CUAK+jXg2WYKoh7KpdLuzxcettB9fv1k0Kkll6YqA== Received: from lists.gnu.org (lists.gnu.org [209.51.188.17]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by aspmx1.migadu.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 6CBD3587AF for ; Thu, 02 Jan 2025 13:15:14 +0100 (CET) Received: from localhost ([::1] helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1tTK5a-0000dG-6p; Thu, 02 Jan 2025 07:14:10 -0500 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1tTK5X-0000d0-Sp; Thu, 02 Jan 2025 07:14:07 -0500 Received: from mail-ot1-x332.google.com ([2607:f8b0:4864:20::332]) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_128_GCM_SHA256:128) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1tTK5W-0002ze-4H; Thu, 02 Jan 2025 07:14:07 -0500 Received: by mail-ot1-x332.google.com with SMTP id 46e09a7af769-71e2dccdb81so7400831a34.1; Thu, 02 Jan 2025 04:14:05 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20230601; t=1735820044; x=1736424844; darn=gnu.org; h=in-reply-to:content-disposition:mime-version:references:message-id :subject:cc:to:from:date:from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id:reply-to; bh=T0ZmzL0OFoMgxcZ991JHIw/aVkMyFe769sh0dauRa8I=; b=m1H0/Ziu0q2zB/q2JJ6as3y+pXlHBxwuMgRIA4Dj6mKEo3H2r1ID896QDA8QsYfGur Dr/EDQhe5Bz3n+M/Ay8IcgXye1ETbfPPJjhw5+ZxdBnCwEh8ginTbkn9ziMidTFKTKE4 cjUBk0IHMEzLh5YgcUrdaDSdycToF5i57T/ZwD7OtfbFhSgN3ZJhqZQGAt2Yb6IsU0/A QT1bY8ygViNVmyi6/9XUqUaXewlqG3iAYc5Y6a2cJcjwYI0DCQ6FqOkX14qB6CHr0gst XOXfckiMm+6Zy6hDTYGYk/vXedm7yl+S0WH5VDBNKRAamyh37847y3aKGN8pn3qE+W/3 J/vg== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20230601; t=1735820044; x=1736424844; h=in-reply-to:content-disposition:mime-version:references:message-id :subject:cc:to:from:date:x-gm-message-state:from:to:cc:subject:date :message-id:reply-to; bh=T0ZmzL0OFoMgxcZ991JHIw/aVkMyFe769sh0dauRa8I=; b=DfxIlrWUS6QzUQLmmhjHDo42jYg0QFyCmIUA0jH24GpuqmpbCVenBJaJujC5u6BpWV vjsSMj8cJsSxWQqzASD9DsqKOihlKXiw9JTKwHvNknBKexDYZLVimKBhOqvZQJS3rJOJ 4THZzyAT5nYPdRf1qVzcTDNYqv3muwfUBrHYSuYLaon1zPOmAjVvS4PR4092fVQadV3/ FyTfIWg7VFPKAWtWSUM8JnQ2YwRJ3wrrkYSoJl08fWjVPEK9KUCqO/mJ/22l9iS9QwZj VL7ChF2kPvkk4h0CBY2qOJLoXkZZcw8/slvg94WdayjhfJYry7pqcV9qogaubqWJVzNe puUg== X-Forwarded-Encrypted: i=1; AJvYcCWiuPLWfcrUAh9Lu/tfTLOTJzPBeH5Wktk/VVZhxbZGa0LmJvZyzLBABC2/n6ooVkVj6js06A==@gnu.org X-Gm-Message-State: AOJu0Yw9S0mXBTKVIpK9LFcQ150rETUF2v4udhg5JXRz6ttHGhXFwKHY 0xRyX/9aq0Gs3NG1ih12Lf3seUoBFu5xgx91YOLG1k/OCalnz8Kf X-Gm-Gg: ASbGncv7SmQU2mXazyIdIvJSG91Y1On024XA6acv7wypmyRjsM3CxMqdQ3TMbO+XmyJ NewMSP9cvwwXu+V8aBYnHyfBkeWZ3qSgnZpRw136opzUdZWXU38Gv+zzxLq6tg6g/ATV8GXGVwB BhyucJN2+QmUWTCdSokdTcf/Ap+9zpyuIth8qAPgPXYsgORd4YXSm53IuYrLjUD2t7S7KuFKlLh yakblkf+awKiV31ikQa96r+woRjFbXq/OT6lNqRegCdLxw= X-Google-Smtp-Source: AGHT+IGXp8hCclOrVRH4J9XA/2VCChuJIZ6wns5xI8LtlqDhvIrBSIXm+1aycL/exjehVRK80NQzTA== X-Received: by 2002:a05:6830:488b:b0:718:ad8a:e2ce with SMTP id 46e09a7af769-720ff80ad53mr30769960a34.17.1735820044064; Thu, 02 Jan 2025 04:14:04 -0800 (PST) Received: from illithid ([2600:1700:957d:1d70::49]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id 46e09a7af769-71fc979c7fcsm7371743a34.17.2025.01.02.04.14.01 (version=TLS1_3 cipher=TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 bits=256/256); Thu, 02 Jan 2025 04:14:02 -0800 (PST) Date: Thu, 2 Jan 2025 06:14:00 -0600 From: "G. Branden Robinson" To: Ihor Radchenko Cc: emacs-orgmode@gnu.org, groff@gnu.org Subject: Re: [BUG] "\fC" macro in ox-man.el [9.6.15 (release_9.6.15 @ /usr/share/emacs/29.2/lisp/org/)] Message-ID: <20250102121400.gklcd2t7vecwtox3@illithid> References: <20241218172040.tyytdhbyl7annyli@illithid> <87ttav7mii.fsf@localhost> <20241231170034.nzmponxxjppqrhf5@illithid> <87bjwrhg6a.fsf@localhost> <87o70qg9gi.fsf@localhost> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha256; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="vu53w24454nn4y4p" Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <87o70qg9gi.fsf@localhost> Received-SPF: pass client-ip=2607:f8b0:4864:20::332; envelope-from=g.branden.robinson@gmail.com; helo=mail-ot1-x332.google.com X-Spam_score_int: -20 X-Spam_score: -2.1 X-Spam_bar: -- X-Spam_report: (-2.1 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: emacs-orgmode@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "General discussions about Org-mode." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-orgmode-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org Sender: emacs-orgmode-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org X-Migadu-Country: US X-Migadu-Flow: FLOW_IN X-Migadu-Queue-Id: 6CBD3587AF X-Migadu-Scanner: mx13.migadu.com X-Migadu-Spam-Score: -2.09 X-Spam-Score: -2.09 X-TUID: hBUmjQq6p0N+ --vu53w24454nn4y4p Content-Type: text/plain; protected-headers=v1; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Subject: Re: [BUG] "\fC" macro in ox-man.el [9.6.15 (release_9.6.15 @ /usr/share/emacs/29.2/lisp/org/)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Hi Ihor, At 2025-01-01T09:38:37+0000, Ihor Radchenko wrote: > "onf" writes: >=20 > >> Also, what if we leave \fC and add \f[CR]/.EX on top? > >> AFAIU, the worst case scenario for \fC is that it does nothing. By > >> leaving it there, we thus retain old working exports working while also > >> adding appropriate format when \f[CR] is supported. > > > > The \f escape sets current font. \fP restores previous font. > > What this means is that doing \fC\f[CR]Lorem\fP: > > (1) sets the text Lorem in Courier if font name C or CR exists > > (2) restores previous font if neither font C nor CR exists > > (3) sets font to Courier if both font name C and CR exist >=20 > What about \fC\f[CR]Lorem\fP\fP? Unreliable. As onf pointed out, not only is the font selection not backed up by a stack, but it the identity of "the previous font" is not well-defined if you attempt to select a non-existent font (as either or both of `C` and `CR` may be). https://lists.gnu.org/archive/html/groff/2022-11/msg00162.html There simply is no portable way to change the font family (serif, sans serif, monospaced) inline in the man(7) macro language. And even if there were, such a change would not show up on terminals. > >> Do I understand correctly that blank line is sometimes interpreted > >> as vertical spacing and sometimes ignored? > > > > A blank input line is equivalent to .sp unless the .blm request was > > called to change this behavior. .blm is groff's invention (see > > groff_diff(7)). >=20 > Then maybe we can put .sp explicitly instead of a blank line. I advise against it. If what follows is a paragraph or a (sub)section heading, then by calling the applicable macro, you will get any necessary vertical space automatically. Also, on typesetters, the vertical space between paragraphs and between paragraphs and (sub)section headings, is not 1v, but 0.4v. This has been the case since McIlroy's original man(7) 45 years ago. https://minnie.tuhs.org/cgi-bin/utree.pl?file=3DV7/usr/lib/tmac/tmac.an See the comment '# paragraph distance'. > In our code, we add blank after blocks (or displays) of code. As noted, the macro package will take care of this for you, while leaving you the flexibility to set a code block _without_ immediately subsequent vertical space. > Extra vertical space after seems to be reasonable. Also not reliable. Some man(1) implementations, including man-db man(1), "squeeze" multiple blank lines into one. Regards, Branden --vu53w24454nn4y4p Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc" -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- iQIzBAABCAAdFiEEh3PWHWjjDgcrENwa0Z6cfXEmbc4FAmd2gwAACgkQ0Z6cfXEm bc45jQ/9FT0dtTR2I2wmNPEYfBVnW8GLcTBImk29lVYYHIfKcNC+QNXpDpOKW3/5 Z8meiV7CxNtVkqAOWmn31Vrn9fnJaxs7SV/dAqblHtgE6leHxTbmH0IIYntMz2Xq SBfZH6d5OnbeMPeftj4VJuBPviKd38906Rm+TEVvldDwX2Q3nVJnXkBeSYqOrrhm plLhiHLl/2Gr2Jv5tcGrjOXaUA4nSU95sJuZBDDMyT/zG79rmdjYRcHEOSlkaEtP PhOhcqDi7fmjlpMmbyPymw6IRAirBDkIeLqeij02y6UCt80ahVNoCEahbb0vRyZF IGqYKQLnF//3yJzTup/r68urmzhnibRRkLEzuRtkJawFmeZW02ZT0unVN7hSLtWk YV+i48qqz1hdJalMCJZ2cJQIc0bRGo6N6nzA7BMM5oeE2LW4LJ8DJMEktxx76v1j dt0MC/orX8GIgqjYB4xMs2biutMLZLdlVlwjPLRnBiLn7Ehvj/Pmf4XqKuOLYP7X IL88cqpfW4nxxOV4cygjEPE8msZcS9lHBBwJWD3cmbG/UQEss6kEXmRRpgSzJYZC 2QCi6d6Fky9v3oofqsHyLegmOHrZoX1xg0NYEjoTmHlrcl6yNtidUqDd4Q6W6Hlf THw/OcTzY9oJuv7fJLt40A9OFNCMZUL8wxZEuOmzHzTmmW3b6IA= =bPz3 -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --vu53w24454nn4y4p--