From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mp10.migadu.com ([2001:41d0:8:6d80::]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits)) by ms5.migadu.com with LMTPS id iJ97NA5hTmMGPAAAbAwnHQ (envelope-from ) for ; Tue, 18 Oct 2022 10:17:18 +0200 Received: from aspmx1.migadu.com ([2001:41d0:8:6d80::]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits)) by mp10.migadu.com with LMTPS id aPh6Mw5hTmNMQAAAG6o9tA (envelope-from ) for ; Tue, 18 Oct 2022 10:17:18 +0200 Received: from lists.gnu.org (lists.gnu.org [209.51.188.17]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by aspmx1.migadu.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 7D98C260D6 for ; Tue, 18 Oct 2022 10:17:18 +0200 (CEST) Received: from localhost ([::1]:45310 helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1okhmn-0005vU-Lk for larch@yhetil.org; Tue, 18 Oct 2022 04:17:17 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:39300) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1okhj3-0005u5-QE for emacs-orgmode@gnu.org; Tue, 18 Oct 2022 04:13:31 -0400 Received: from ciao.gmane.io ([116.202.254.214]:60210) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1okhj0-000074-AW for emacs-orgmode@gnu.org; Tue, 18 Oct 2022 04:13:25 -0400 Received: from list by ciao.gmane.io with local (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1okhiu-000561-Tt for emacs-orgmode@gnu.org; Tue, 18 Oct 2022 10:13:16 +0200 X-Injected-Via-Gmane: http://gmane.org/ To: emacs-orgmode@gnu.org From: Karl Voit Subject: Re: Org-mode syntax as a tool-independent MIME type Date: Tue, 18 Oct 2022 10:13:09 +0200 Organization: www.karl-voit.at Message-ID: <2022-10-18T10-05-24@devnull.Karl-Voit.at> References: <871rjhha8t.fsf@gmail.com> <5f5325db.1c69fb81.53d7d.5b93@mx.google.com> <87pn70ai0t.fsf@gnu.org> <87y2log45r.fsf@gmail.com> <87sgbgg9r0.fsf@gmail.com> <2022-10-17T22-36-38@devnull.Karl-Voit.at> <87y1tdvppg.fsf@tec.tecosaur.net> <87fsfl7g01.fsf@bzg.fr> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit User-Agent: slrn/1.0.3 (Linux) X-GPG-Key: http://www.Karl-Voit.at/Karl_Voit_GnuPG_public_key.gpg X-Registered-Linux-User: 224337 X-Confession: Pastafarian http://www.venganza.org/ Received-SPF: pass client-ip=116.202.254.214; envelope-from=geo-emacs-orgmode@m.gmane-mx.org; helo=ciao.gmane.io X-Spam_score_int: -15 X-Spam_score: -1.6 X-Spam_bar: - X-Spam_report: (-1.6 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, HEADER_FROM_DIFFERENT_DOMAINS=0.25, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001 autolearn=no autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: emacs-orgmode@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "General discussions about Org-mode." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Reply-To: Karl Voit Errors-To: emacs-orgmode-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org Sender: "Emacs-orgmode" X-Migadu-Flow: FLOW_IN X-Migadu-Country: US ARC-Message-Signature: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=yhetil.org; s=key1; t=1666081038; h=from:from:sender:sender:reply-to:reply-to:subject:subject:date:date: message-id:message-id:to:to:cc:mime-version:mime-version: content-type:content-type: content-transfer-encoding:content-transfer-encoding: references:references:list-id:list-help:list-unsubscribe: list-subscribe:list-post; bh=GS2ffz67RbsoJuljPFNsGmyUrNRpilxvoxzqMMaj978=; b=kf+hMnbgSymOXve+cE07a/i06623mjsGwtVi4Zx2gBRvJetO+Hcp1FWB6u25j/oIFPlpij syAY5Qv6t/yKWGi1e7iJZinedIyf628/r7+feKrgAowZQiQznuqJdALzksFo3rRSyAW/HA k2JpWHVh4fwcG5rPPylIkOJ9BguntP7Mv95Bk4fABrzKKTT1lYWLUhT/hkcLaK45apSDlv NYGWJnEkWt5WRUE/JxUmbNT/IJGgDkjv8i8kLoAHoLIHp7iznO3LHAo2B4ZlP6ct9Qvq50 V96nXV59ojrzwBh54ud0UpmOXgcCi1wvVZC7BER18EZhXXKt71xFmaGwDH6zSA== ARC-Seal: i=1; s=key1; d=yhetil.org; t=1666081038; a=rsa-sha256; cv=none; b=kG/+r6NPfUOGRkoUhfvBy7GIt62/LjcBR4eXLv3fwfKIsR8HJFUN5bcPuxOrEDMwoGtNAC yG0aq7pMRQcdopvOWwKBxa4Wr5J+lzlN0xiA8Ss4E/pVP8pA7Y346kqFfd7YFVzy9LkIay 7E4FzZ+aqLhOL1t1mJpTo49RHhoWvl71OEStF3WX8nXMuyJMMwkLbfhBDAKKVpP8cAKw+P tbNGECti66ux+tO4vHJKt3RPS/ofXSi9BIFLhkLsJwtLRUqMBHtgE2g+5pVjXOhhgD+jsC teZ05NexnO2McEQ4/QfIMGDZpXeE4BwDMdNuTGryt82wy9lgkelmHbvSrhzZbQ== ARC-Authentication-Results: i=1; aspmx1.migadu.com; dkim=none; dmarc=none; spf=pass (aspmx1.migadu.com: domain of "emacs-orgmode-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org" designates 209.51.188.17 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom="emacs-orgmode-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org" X-Migadu-Spam-Score: -2.22 Authentication-Results: aspmx1.migadu.com; dkim=none; dmarc=none; spf=pass (aspmx1.migadu.com: domain of "emacs-orgmode-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org" designates 209.51.188.17 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom="emacs-orgmode-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org" X-Migadu-Queue-Id: 7D98C260D6 X-Spam-Score: -2.22 X-Migadu-Scanner: scn1.migadu.com X-TUID: dRnKACvIazg0 Hi Bastien, * Bastien wrote: > Hi Karl and Timothy, > > thank you Karl for reviving this important topic. > > I think our collective priority should be to work on > https://orgmode.org/worg/dev/org-synxtax.html so that it reflects the > current Org syntax. Hopefully we can do this before Org 9.6. As > discussed with TEC, we can factor out suggestions from this document > so that it is not a mix of facts and hypotheses. A valid approach. I think we do have two different approaches ongoing here. With OD1 I tried to come up with a minimal set of Org-mode syntax elements that are very easy to implement in non-Emacs tools in order to get an easy intro to this universe. This is a bottom-up approach. Defining the whole Org-mode syntax as you've suggested is a complete definition of Orgdown (or OD∞ as of https://gitlab.com/publicvoit/orgdown/-/blob/master/doc/Orgdown-Levels.org ) which is a top-down approach. So far, I don´t see a conflict here. This may arise with OD2, OD3, ... definitions if they will ever exist. > Then we can work on suggestions for evolutions of the current Org-mode > syntax chunk by chunk, as a long-term goal for stabilizing changes for > Org 10 (2023 ?) Sounds great! > What occurred to me while rereading this thread is that definining a > syntax for a IETF RFC on an Org mimetype probably needs to be done not > just by this Emacs Org-mode community, but by bringing together other > "consumers" of .org files, from ecosystems outside of Emacs. > > Such a collective work could lead to define what subset of the Org > syntax is useful as the corner-stone for .org files everywhere - which > is what you rightfully brought up with "Orgdown". I tried to collect projects on https://gitlab.com/publicvoit/orgdown/-/blob/master/doc/Tool-Support.org > If successful, such a process could end up in defining the minimal and > official "Org syntax" while allowing implementations (like the one for > Emacs org-mode) to supercharge this syntax if deemed useful. To me, this sound aligned with the idea of OD levels OD1 and OD∞. > Perhaps TEC is right and we will end up having the minimal syntax > being the one we currently use for Org-mode: we'll see. > > But we need volunteers: one to work on worg/dev/org-synxtax.org (I'm > assuming TEC can lead the work here) and one to set up a discussion > with people implementing Org in various places (you ?). What kind of discussion is on your mind? At the moment, I tend to think that the Org-mode community should provide directions by developing a formal definition of the syntax and maybe later-on define viable sub-sets (the OD levels?) so that tool developers don't have to implement the whole large thing. At this stage, I don't know what discussions you're trying to start here. Can you elaborate? > I suggest to take this sequentially and not tackle the second work > before we're done with the first one. I interpret this as "discussions with tool developers after working on the formal Org definition". This would be my understanding and also my thought. -- get mail|git|SVN|photos|postings|SMS|phonecalls|RSS|CSV|XML into Org-mode: > get Memacs from https://github.com/novoid/Memacs < Personal Information Management > http://Karl-Voit.at/tags/pim/ Emacs-related > http://Karl-Voit.at/tags/emacs/