From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mp0 ([2001:41d0:2:4a6f::]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits)) by ms0.migadu.com with LMTPS id YGElD/LjCmGrXAAAgWs5BA (envelope-from ) for ; Wed, 04 Aug 2021 21:01:06 +0200 Received: from aspmx1.migadu.com ([2001:41d0:2:4a6f::]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits)) by mp0 with LMTPS id oI2pCvLjCmEadAAA1q6Kng (envelope-from ) for ; Wed, 04 Aug 2021 19:01:06 +0000 Received: from lists.gnu.org (lists.gnu.org [209.51.188.17]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by aspmx1.migadu.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 7FFE416E83 for ; Wed, 4 Aug 2021 21:01:05 +0200 (CEST) Received: from localhost ([::1]:50852 helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1mBM8W-0005G5-Gd for larch@yhetil.org; Wed, 04 Aug 2021 15:01:04 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:34204) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1mBM80-0005Ft-U9 for emacs-orgmode@gnu.org; Wed, 04 Aug 2021 15:00:33 -0400 Received: from mout-p-101.mailbox.org ([2001:67c:2050::465:101]:9602) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_CHACHA20_POLY1305:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1mBM7x-00081j-J6 for emacs-orgmode@gnu.org; Wed, 04 Aug 2021 15:00:31 -0400 Received: from smtp2.mailbox.org (smtp2.mailbox.org [80.241.60.241]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits) key-exchange ECDHE (P-384) server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) server-digest SHA256) (No client certificate requested) by mout-p-101.mailbox.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4Gg1K41xLhzQjYN for ; Wed, 4 Aug 2021 21:00:24 +0200 (CEST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at heinlein-support.de DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=guelker.eu; s=MBO0001; t=1628103622; h=from:from:reply-to:subject:subject:date:date:message-id:message-id: to:to:cc:mime-version:mime-version:content-type:content-type: content-transfer-encoding:content-transfer-encoding: in-reply-to:in-reply-to:references:references; bh=S7masgurnmVe+f+T741mUkJwSBg6rI/FPEbNUW/8y5I=; b=IFILZowUWa8LZ+wanNE3566Tn8DYu8qkEUTBs+UtCjDjLakr5Pv4MhvC2mz/rsUJmCI6RS M4ogDPHQAXQvDDApilIsMRu7bRClG2Birt1uwdsOjiV15GvutgDIXQgoCutNnpHjHeQGF5 9jf8KlwUdchCcPVU8l3t90wjCTM+zQpChyqpaM4CwcfRrz0UZ3zymlJOBFF8EbdvET/Yc5 494J0l4LCCTwzbffM2RW+8G3+HjBJwEOYadIWalAwRTI1ZZFcntEwzKn7qZajce/YPa4ub oJv1V+FuZQ5IwEetKJCXktdDrvSBlOt4B9FEl0c55HzGTY+mkk4YqIgmQegzIw== Received: from smtp2.mailbox.org ([80.241.60.241]) by spamfilter04.heinlein-hosting.de (spamfilter04.heinlein-hosting.de [80.241.56.122]) (amavisd-new, port 10030) with ESMTP id zJ4QHHNgAfW6 for ; Wed, 4 Aug 2021 21:00:20 +0200 (CEST) Date: Wed, 4 Aug 2021 21:00:18 +0200 From: =?utf-8?B?TS4g4oCYcXVpbnR1c+KAmSBHw7xsa2Vy?= To: emacs-orgmode@gnu.org Subject: Re: Help requested: Support for basic Org mode support in tools outside of Emacs Message-ID: <20210804190018.GA17572@atlantis> Mail-Followup-To: emacs-orgmode@gnu.org References: <2021-08-03T11-03-22@devnull.Karl-Voit.at> <2021-08-04T12-54-06@devnull.Karl-Voit.at> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit In-Reply-To: <2021-08-04T12-54-06@devnull.Karl-Voit.at> X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 1961E1849 X-Rspamd-UID: dc765f Received-SPF: pass client-ip=2001:67c:2050::465:101; envelope-from=post+orgmodeml@guelker.eu; helo=mout-p-101.mailbox.org X-Spam_score_int: -27 X-Spam_score: -2.8 X-Spam_bar: -- X-Spam_report: (-2.8 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: emacs-orgmode@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.23 Precedence: list List-Id: "General discussions about Org-mode." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-orgmode-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org Sender: "Emacs-orgmode" X-Migadu-Flow: FLOW_IN ARC-Message-Signature: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=yhetil.org; s=key1; t=1628103665; h=from:from:sender:sender:reply-to:subject:subject:date:date: message-id:message-id:to:to:cc:mime-version:mime-version: content-type:content-type: content-transfer-encoding:content-transfer-encoding: in-reply-to:in-reply-to:references:references:list-id:list-help: list-unsubscribe:list-subscribe:list-post:dkim-signature; bh=S7masgurnmVe+f+T741mUkJwSBg6rI/FPEbNUW/8y5I=; b=SLYNBAcwy9C2y++OG0HPCAFNP9XUlDttzrgsP3NR2lbhh/Tivd0+1/STzdIivRp39W1+IM P1i5mzR9ZUTnXO7GIXG/8I+WKotM3fG98a1Eq9XPLb/Pi99RKiBnF1whVqGjnvarUie3vi xiI2N3viRldIUD5xac1FShdwdPMpv9sqP21PGEYhNmN18qd8B2vkJS4lO6+tUdgqB5wC0o EBLNhzU3mE8uXz6ce5X0a1WXaqMdIrKeKFm4cO6lpOaBVjXErAcqXkdjkwE0kvZ+vfbNyN jk03kmSCDs+9siGJlZxNr7Vee4N0lWKPgKrwUxdqcztwtgoonheNJcvgfTgCoA== ARC-Seal: i=1; s=key1; d=yhetil.org; t=1628103665; a=rsa-sha256; cv=none; b=ZBwyApG+ugh6HY4pDTz7LENiD+MP7nn3KdOZkj4SBkVmRWviA5cZrOXKpu6SVwyTdqJATc BZfVThIciNqXPpm2g7qgjNjAiIrr0Rf9bst52xg7lCgIpyqf4t+tk15uWlhGTl8JT1cs5C qvld0ykJ5eD/J46r5F802pVU7AHOeDSNSjKnlnWR9NtyMaXgZdep2MKHcY1eWZdUqsZGkZ T3VkzfPk11nnPoZwB9LG3todvf54WGH0yOKMfc+COMKZB7QVyvfqgGv3xCeB2tunRjIK7g x2wuhr1JD3hDTCtB+cdnk7h8GPN26umUmAf6VF+c5yUEeJFbAhuY5ooitZHn6w== ARC-Authentication-Results: i=1; aspmx1.migadu.com; dkim=pass header.d=guelker.eu header.s=MBO0001 header.b=IFILZowU; spf=pass (aspmx1.migadu.com: domain of emacs-orgmode-bounces@gnu.org designates 209.51.188.17 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=emacs-orgmode-bounces@gnu.org X-Migadu-Spam-Score: -0.61 Authentication-Results: aspmx1.migadu.com; dkim=pass header.d=guelker.eu header.s=MBO0001 header.b=IFILZowU; dmarc=none; spf=pass (aspmx1.migadu.com: domain of emacs-orgmode-bounces@gnu.org designates 209.51.188.17 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=emacs-orgmode-bounces@gnu.org X-Migadu-Queue-Id: 7FFE416E83 X-Spam-Score: -0.61 X-Migadu-Scanner: scn0.migadu.com X-TUID: cC1SLvsYWc6a Am 04. August 2021 um 12:57 Uhr +0200 schrieb Karl Voit: > My focus is on Emacs-independent tools, emphasizing the argument > that Org mode is not Emacs-only and its syntax does have > applications outside of Emacs as well because it is a well-defined > syntax in the sense of > https://karl-voit.at/2017/09/23/orgmode-as-markup-only/ It is an interesting post, thank you for sharing. Indeed, a list of non-Emacs org tools would benefit org's popularity as a markup language. Good luck with building one! The problem with the approach you describe in this article is that the org markup is not really separatable from org as a part of Emacs. By setting some variables, the user is able to change the org syntax itself and tailor it to his personal taste. The org manual even gives a simple example for adding new TODO states at § 5.2.1: https://orgmode.org/manual/Workflow-states.html While this might not fall under the restriction to basic facilities, it is perfectly possible to redefine variables that define the basic syntax as well. If one does not like stars for heading prefixes, it is possible change `org-heading-regexp' to whatever taste is at hand. A more practical example (which I use myself) is adding new link types as explained in § A.3 of the manual: https://orgmode.org/manual/Adding-Hyperlink-Types.html I recall from a discussion on this mailing list which I cannot seem to find at the moment that the inseparability of org syntax and org Emacs tooling is official position of the org developers. I think it was in the context of registering a MIME type for org. In any case, org as a syntax is a moving target, as the recent additions in form of citations have shown (see https://blog.tecosaur.com/tmio/2021-07-31-citations.html). Note I am not at all opposed to your quest. In fact, I would love to have more widespread support for org so that it is easier for me to collaborate with non-Emacs users on plain text documents. I just wanted to point out difficulties of spreading org in the world outside Emacs, which may be hard hard to imagine, but does exist. As an aside, I hope that pandoc will receive support for org's new citation syntax soon. -quintus -- Dipl.-Jur. M. Gülker | https://mg.guelker.eu | For security: Passau, Germany | kontakt@guelker.eu | () Avoid HTML e-mail European Union | PGP: see homepage | /\ http://asciiribbon.org