[New exporter] Key bindings and typographical error

[New exporter] Key bindings and typographical error

[Sebastien Vauban]

Hello Nicolas,

First of all, let me thank for your the work you've done with the exporters.
I don't have yet a full 100%-compliant config, but I'm clearly on that road.
And this is really great to get a very nice dispatcher, with bugless exports.

While using the new dispatcher, I'd like to propose some adaptations -- before
it's too late (before everybody gets accustomed to your new bindings).

Here are the changes I would personally make:

--8<---------------cut here---------------start------------->8---
[h] Export to HTML

    [H] To temporary buffer            ->  [b] As HTML buffer
    [h] To file                        ->      As HTML file
    [o] To file and open               ->      As HTML file and open

[l] Export to LaTeX

    [L] As TEX buffer                  ->  [b] As LaTeX buffer
    [l] As TEX file                    ->  [l] As LaTeX file
    [p] As PDF file                    OK
    [o] As PDF file and open           OK
    [B] As TEX buffer (Beamer)         ->  [B] As LaTeX buffer (Beamer)
    [b] As TEX file (Beamer)           ->  [L] As LaTeX file (Beamer)
    [P] As PDF file (Beamer)           OK
    [O] As PDF file and open (Beamer)  OK
--8<---------------cut here---------------end--------------->8---

In summary:
- Use "As ... buffer/file" writing
- Use key `b' for "buffer" result (for both HTML and LaTeX exports)
- Use "LaTeX" (or "TeX") instead of "TEX"
- Use only *small* letters for "plain" LaTeX export
- Use only *capital* letters for "Beamer" LaTeX export
- Use equivalent capital letters for "plain" -> "Beamer"

Best regards,
  Seb

-- 
Sebastien Vauban

Re: [New exporter] Key bindings and typographical error

[Eric S Fraga]

Sebastien Vauban <wxhgmqzgwmuf@spammotel.com> writes:

> While using the new dispatcher, I'd like to propose some adaptations -- before
> it's too late (before everybody gets accustomed to your new bindings).

and I would also like to take this opportunity to suggest a change in
the interface.

Given that we have moved to a multi-key sequence for selecting exporter
and then action, could these two aspects not be dealt with in the
mini-buffer?  I find the display of all the options confusing...  I
would rather have the dispatcher prompt, in the mini-buffer, something
along the lines of:

: Export to: (l) latex, (h) html, (o) ODT, (a) ascii

with the choices obviously depending on the backends initialised.  Then,
depending on the key (e.g. l):

: Export as: (l) file, (b) buffer, (p) PDF, ...

Just a thought which arises from my having to use small screens
sometimes as I'm a sucker for punishment and insist on using Emacs on my
phone and the dispatch window is too large sometimes...

I would also suggest that beamer be a different target, separate from
latex, chosen by a different first key (e.g. b).  This would then allow
some unification of the second key sequence (f=file, b=buffer, p=PDF,
v=view...)?

Finally, I could be more radical and suggest that the whole export
dispatch should be based on keymaps... with C-h, as usual, bringing up
the options.  But this might be too radical ;-)

Thanks,
eric
-- 
: Eric S Fraga, GnuPG: 0xC89193D8FFFCF67D
: in Emacs 24.3.50.1 and Org 7.9.3e-904-g338046

Re: [New exporter] Key bindings and typographical error

[Suvayu Ali]

Hi Eric and Seb,

On Sat, Feb 09, 2013 at 12:28:06AM +1030, Eric S Fraga wrote:
> 
> Given that we have moved to a multi-key sequence for selecting exporter
> and then action, could these two aspects not be dealt with in the
> mini-buffer?  I find the display of all the options confusing...  I
> would rather have the dispatcher prompt, in the mini-buffer, something
> along the lines of:
> 
> : Export to: (l) latex, (h) html, (o) ODT, (a) ascii
> 
> with the choices obviously depending on the backends initialised.  Then,
> depending on the key (e.g. l):
> 
> : Export as: (l) file, (b) buffer, (p) PDF, ...
> 

Here one of the options (file?) could be the default, so it would be
sufficient to hit RET for most cases.

> Just a thought which arises from my having to use small screens
> sometimes as I'm a sucker for punishment and insist on using Emacs on my
> phone and the dispatch window is too large sometimes...
> 

I agree whole-heartedly.  The dispatcher menu has always bugged me.  It
doesn't seem to fit into rest of Emacs' minibuffer oriented interface.
For me this would mean one more step towards making Org mode friendlier
to text terminals.

> I would also suggest that beamer be a different target, separate from
> latex, chosen by a different first key (e.g. b).  This would then allow
> some unification of the second key sequence (f=file, b=buffer, p=PDF,
> v=view...)?
> 

I am ambivalent about this suggestion.

> Finally, I could be more radical and suggest that the whole export
> dispatch should be based on keymaps... with C-h, as usual, bringing up
> the options.  But this might be too radical ;-)
> 

Again, agree whole-heartedly.  :)

Cheers,

-- 
Suvayu

Open source is the future. It sets us free.

Re: [New exporter] Key bindings and typographical error

[Sebastien Vauban]

Hi Eric,

Eric S Fraga wrote:
>> While using the new dispatcher, I'd like to propose some adaptations -- before
>> it's too late (before everybody gets accustomed to your new bindings).
>
> and I would also like to take this opportunity to suggest a change in
> the interface.
>
> Given that we have moved to a multi-key sequence for selecting exporter
> and then action, could these two aspects not be dealt with in the
> mini-buffer?  I find the display of all the options confusing...  I
> would rather have the dispatcher prompt, in the mini-buffer, something
> along the lines of:
>
> : Export to: (l) latex, (h) html, (o) ODT, (a) ascii
>
> with the choices obviously depending on the backends initialised.  Then,
> depending on the key (e.g. l):
>
> : Export as: (l) file, (b) buffer, (p) PDF, ...

Are you aware of:

  (setq org-export-dispatch-use-expert-ui t)

If not, well, you should -- at least from now on!

If yes, then, I guess you mean getting more than just the letters in the echo
area?

Best regards,
  Seb

-- 
Sebastien Vauban

Re: [New exporter] Key bindings and typographical error

[Charles Berry]

Suvayu Ali <fatkasuvayu+linux <at> gmail.com> writes:

> 
> Hi Eric and Seb,
> 
> On Sat, Feb 09, 2013 at 12:28:06AM +1030, Eric S Fraga wrote:
> > 
> > Given that we have moved to a multi-key sequence for selecting exporter
> > and then action, could these two aspects not be dealt with in the
> > mini-buffer?  

If you customize org-export-dispatch-use-expert-ui to t

Then you will get the minibuffer, albeit with less verbose prompts than you
describe.

As a fallback, you can hit '?' to get the full menu if you forget what the
prompts mean.


I find the display of all the options confusing...  I
> > would rather have the dispatcher prompt, in the mini-buffer, something
> > along the lines of:
> > 
> > : Export to: (l) latex, (h) html, (o) ODT, (a) ascii
> > 
> > with the choices obviously depending on the backends initialised.  Then,
> > depending on the key (e.g. l):
> > 
> > : Export as: (l) file, (b) buffer, (p) PDF, ...
> > 
> 
> Here one of the options (file?) could be the default, so it would be
> sufficient to hit RET for most cases.
> 

Close to this is

   C-u org-export-dispatch RET

which repeats the last command sequence.



[deleted]

Re: [New exporter] Key bindings and typographical error

[Nicolas Goaziou]

Hello,

"Sebastien Vauban"
<wxhgmqzgwmuf-geNee64TY+gS+FvcfC7Uqw@public.gmane.org> writes:

> While using the new dispatcher, I'd like to propose some adaptations -- before
> it's too late (before everybody gets accustomed to your new bindings).

[...]

> In summary:
> - Use "As ... buffer/file" writing
> - Use key `b' for "buffer" result (for both HTML and LaTeX exports)
> - Use only *small* letters for "plain" LaTeX export
> - Use only *capital* letters for "Beamer" LaTeX export
> - Use equivalent capital letters for "plain" -> "Beamer"

As you may have noticed, the current logic for a backend accessed
through a key 'x' is that:

  - 'x' will export to a file
  - 'X' will export to a temp buffer

Is your proposal really better?

I don't mind changing the bindings for the back-ends (don't forget there
are more than those loaded by default), but I need an incentive to do
so: perfect bindings do not exist, and I don't want to change them every
other day.


Regards,

-- 
Nicolas Goaziou

Re: [New exporter] Key bindings and typographical error

[Eric S Fraga]

Charles Berry <ccberry@ucsd.edu> writes:

> If you customize org-export-dispatch-use-expert-ui to t

Ah!  Thanks.  Missed this.

> Then you will get the minibuffer, albeit with less verbose prompts than you
> describe.

Yes.  Definitely tests the memory ;-)

Thanks again,
eric
-- 
: Eric S Fraga, GnuPG: 0xC89193D8FFFCF67D
: in Emacs 24.3.50.1 and Org 7.9.3e-904-g338046

Re: [New exporter] Key bindings and typographical error

[Eric S Fraga]

Sebastien Vauban <wxhgmqzgwmuf@spammotel.com> writes:

> Are you aware of:
>
>   (setq org-export-dispatch-use-expert-ui t)
>
> If not, well, you should -- at least from now on!

I wasn't but I am now!  I guess I shouldn't be surprised that this
exists, just annoyed with myself for not thinking that there would be
such a variable.  Sigh.

thanks,
eric
-- 
: Eric S Fraga, GnuPG: 0xC89193D8FFFCF67D
: in Emacs 24.3.50.1 and Org 7.9.3e-904-g338046

Re: [New exporter] Key bindings and typographical error

[Robert Eckl]

"Sebastien Vauban"
<wxhgmqzgwmuf-geNee64TY+gS+FvcfC7Uqw@public.gmane.org> writes:

> Hi Eric,
>
>>
>> and I would also like to take this opportunity to suggest a change in
>> the interface.
>>
>> Given that we have moved to a multi-key sequence for selecting exporter
>> and then action, could these two aspects not be dealt with in the
>> mini-buffer?  I find the display of all the options confusing...  I
>> would rather have the dispatcher prompt, in the mini-buffer, something
>> along the lines of:
>>
>> : Export to: (l) latex, (h) html, (o) ODT, (a) ascii
>>
>> with the choices obviously depending on the backends initialised.  Then,
>> depending on the key (e.g. l):
>>
>> : Export as: (l) file, (b) buffer, (p) PDF, ...

+1
>
> Are you aware of:
>
>   (setq org-export-dispatch-use-expert-ui t)
>
> If not, well, you should -- at least from now on!
>
Thanks, i will give that a try

> If yes, then, I guess you mean getting more than just the letters in the echo
> area?

That would be very fine, especially the first days. OTOH i can imagine this is
only "neccesary"  for the first steps.

Cu 
Robert