From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 From: Russell Adams Subject: Re: Org-mode and taskpaper Date: Tue, 1 Apr 2008 03:03:17 -0500 Message-ID: <20080401080317.GB2015@odin.demosthenes.org> References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Return-path: Received: from mailman by lists.gnu.org with tmda-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1JgbSt-0002DX-Tm for emacs-orgmode@gnu.org; Tue, 01 Apr 2008 04:03:31 -0400 Received: from exim by lists.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1JgbSr-0002DL-B1 for emacs-orgmode@gnu.org; Tue, 01 Apr 2008 04:03:30 -0400 Received: from [199.232.76.173] (helo=monty-python.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1JgbSr-0002DI-4v for emacs-orgmode@gnu.org; Tue, 01 Apr 2008 04:03:29 -0400 Received: from mx20.gnu.org ([199.232.41.8]) by monty-python.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS-1.0:RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:32) (Exim 4.60) (envelope-from ) id 1JgbSq-0002kA-Eu for emacs-orgmode@gnu.org; Tue, 01 Apr 2008 04:03:28 -0400 Received: from squirtle.drak.net ([72.52.144.201]) by mx20.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.60) (envelope-from ) id 1JgbSo-0001Tl-NA for emacs-orgmode@gnu.org; Tue, 01 Apr 2008 04:03:27 -0400 Received: from [206.180.154.177] (helo=localhost) by squirtle.drak.net with esmtpa (Exim 4.68) (envelope-from ) id 1JgbSg-0003Hj-0d for emacs-orgmode@gnu.org; Tue, 01 Apr 2008 03:03:18 -0500 Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: List-Id: "General discussions about Org-mode." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: emacs-orgmode-bounces+geo-emacs-orgmode=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Errors-To: emacs-orgmode-bounces+geo-emacs-orgmode=m.gmane.org@gnu.org To: emacs-orgmode@gnu.org On Tue, Apr 01, 2008 at 09:26:49AM +0200, Carsten Dominik wrote: > > Dear all, > > the recent discussion about Taskpaper in the thread started > by Clint Laskowski has made me realize how much we have lost > out way with Org-mode. Org-mode was once a compact and > easy tool just like taskpaper. In fact, looking at the > features of taskpaper, one might think that they had an older > version of Org-mode as model and goal of their development. > > But in the meantime, mostly due to a mountain of demands > from this group, it has become so bloated with mostly > useless features, that all but the most geeky users are > totally confused by this. > > Reading this thread has really cost me a lot of sleep, but > I have now come to the conclusion that we need to turn > the tide and downscope Org-mode significantly. Luckily > I have recently put much effort into splitting org.el > into a number of separate files with separate features. > This allows us a very simple and straight-forward path > for this down-scoping effort. I can simply try to remove > one of these separate files after the other and then see > how much complaining I will get for this. In this way, > we can make this process community-based, but I will > need you to frequently update org-mode and to give me > feedback during the process. > > Those of you who actively follow the git repository > might have noticed that this morning I have started > by removing org-table.el, the file containing the > table editor. Unfortunately this also means that the > clocktable support no longer works, but I have always > considered this as a sickening feature anyway, which > tries to streamline our life, but in fact only leads to > more work, and to more time taken away from spending with > partners, kids and friends. > > I hope that you can all agree with my conclusion. If not, > than I am confident that with time you will realize > just how important today's decision was. > > - Carsten > Carsten, I certainly agree that refactoring the code to move blocks of functionality into separate files makes perfect sense. Perhaps some of the functions could be turned into "plugins" using appropriate hooks. All successful projects suffer from feature creep. My opinion would be that when drawing a line for the "core" feature set, ensure that any existing features can continue to exist as a plugin, optionally maintained separately. This can reduce the complexity and learning curve for the core, while allowing us complexity junkies to tinker. As to tables, I would miss them dearly. They aren't immediately related to folding outlines or schedules, but I frequently use short tables for summing information and the exported view is nice. Perhaps you could post a list of the features you consider core, and what items border on too complex that you want to trim. I think it would make for interesting discussion. Thanks. ------------------------------------------------------------------ Russell Adams RLAdams@AdamsInfoServ.com PGP Key ID: 0x1160DCB3 http://www.adamsinfoserv.com/ Fingerprint: 1723 D8CA 4280 1EC9 557F 66E8 1154 E018 1160 DCB3