From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 From: Carsten Dominik Subject: Re: [export] Should sidewaystable option automatically add rotating package? Date: Tue, 17 Sep 2013 06:48:27 +0200 Message-ID: <170A71C4-F232-4E00-BB52-3EB667D570BC@gmail.com> References: <87ob7z4nzl.fsf@pinto.chemeng.ucl.ac.uk> <877gentvmv.fsf@gmx.us> <87wqmmos25.fsf@gmail.com> <20130913100125.257db23d@vknecht-intel.unibw-hamburg.de> <87ioy1vya1.fsf@gmx.us> <874n9kwott.fsf@gmx.us> <87zjrcmdai.fsf@ericabrahamsen.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 6.5 \(1508\)) Content-Type: multipart/signed; boundary="Apple-Mail=_D914D6D0-0A17-404B-907B-3B17437BB875"; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; micalg=pgp-sha1 Return-path: Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::10]:45702) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1VLnDU-0007Sy-Qi for emacs-orgmode@gnu.org; Tue, 17 Sep 2013 00:48:54 -0400 Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1VLnDP-0001ao-26 for emacs-orgmode@gnu.org; Tue, 17 Sep 2013 00:48:48 -0400 Received: from mail-wi0-x236.google.com ([2a00:1450:400c:c05::236]:56703) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1VLnDO-0001ah-Mm for emacs-orgmode@gnu.org; Tue, 17 Sep 2013 00:48:42 -0400 Received: by mail-wi0-f182.google.com with SMTP id ez12so4403381wid.15 for ; Mon, 16 Sep 2013 21:48:41 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <87zjrcmdai.fsf@ericabrahamsen.net> List-Id: "General discussions about Org-mode." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-orgmode-bounces+geo-emacs-orgmode=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Sender: emacs-orgmode-bounces+geo-emacs-orgmode=m.gmane.org@gnu.org To: Eric Abrahamsen Cc: emacs-orgmode@gnu.org, Rasmus --Apple-Mail=_D914D6D0-0A17-404B-907B-3B17437BB875 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252 On 17.9.2013, at 03:45, Eric Abrahamsen wrote: >=20 > On 09/17/13 03:26 AM, Rasmus wrote: >> Hi Carsten, >>=20 >> Carsten Dominik writes: >>=20 >>>> Note: I should be obvious that I prefer to load as little stuff be >>>> default as possible. That is: I'm biased, but it's OK when = everyone >>>> knows. >>>=20 >>> Yes. Of course the cleanest solution would be to load as little >>> as possible. But convenience and backward compatibility are >>> also a concern which I would like to consider. >>=20 >> I agree. And, as said, people who want a 'clean' solution (to his or >> her mind) can easily get that. So convenience is certainly something >> that should be considered! >>=20 >>>>> - to add the rotating package >>>>> - do document that the tabu package is needed when specifying tabu >>>>=20 >>>> Note the package loading order might matter. >>>=20 >>> Yes, I am aware of this. Can you be specific for this case? I = guess >>> rotating has no load sequence issues. >>=20 >> I doubt rotating causes issues as it provides its own environments >> cf. section 2.2 of its manual. I didn't find any reports on the >> Internets. >>=20 >>> Does tabu have such issues [of conflicting with other packages]? >>> With which packages (what you know) >>=20 >> I don't think tabu causes any problems. It states it doesn't rewrite >> any existing code (as e.g. tabularx does) cf. p. 1. >>=20 >> Perhaps, Eric Abrahamsen (Cc'ed) has more experience with tabu >> (according to the log Eric added tabu support). >>=20 >> Unfortunately, I haven't moved to tabu yet. Supposedly, it can >> replace most other tabular packages including longtable and it's >> compatible with many other packages cf. p. 9 of its manual (but = that's >> another story). >=20 > I'm not an expert, but I haven't read about or experienced any > particular clashes, so I've made this my standard table package. I'd > feel a little weird about enforcing that on most users, though... >=20 >>>>> - do document that amsmath in needed when generating a matrix >>>>=20 >>>> and subscripts. And sometimes math (e.g. align). >>>=20 >>> amsmath is (edited) in the defualt list, patch by you IIRC. So we >>> actually do not have to say something about this in the manual. >>=20 >> No. >>=20 >>>>> The reasoning: >>>>>=20 >>>>> - wrapfig and longtable have been in there for a long time, we = want to >>>>> avoid breaking existing files whenever possible >>>>=20 >>>> Assuming a mechanism exists that can detect when tabu is to be = loaded >>>> why only apply it there and not to the other optional packages? >>>=20 >>> Because any automatic mechanism may cause problems with load = sequence, >>> so packages that are problematic in this way should require user = attention. >>> Hmm, have I just argued agains longtbl by saying this? >>=20 >> If we are (i) aware of no known problems with a package and (ii) we >> assume that loading package X=96Z have little impact on compilation = time >> is it then not more rational to just add them as a default package?=20= >>=20 >> While automatic package handling is very exciting it could go awry. >=20 > [...] >=20 > I'm not too in favor of automatic package detection. Unless it works > nearly perfectly, it just seems like trading one kind of user = irritation > for another. >=20 > Personally, I _always_ blast the default packages and load my own = stuff. >=20 > One potential middle ground would be providing defaults "sets": for > instance LATEX_MATH_DEFAULTS (or whatever), that provided a couple > choices for math-related package suites that are known to work well > together. >=20 > Meh, maybe not. >=20 >> Fixes are usually available. For instance, I use a filter to disable >> fontenc/inputenc if pdflatex is not used (it breaks xelatex for me). >=20 > If anything was going to be automatically detected and handled, it = seems > like it should be this. This is one of the main reasons I gave up = trying > to use the defaults at all. Rasmus,=20 I'd be interested to see a patch to this effect. Thanks for your input, Eric. - Carsten >=20 > Not too helpful, I know... >=20 > E --Apple-Mail=_D914D6D0-0A17-404B-907B-3B17437BB875 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: attachment; filename=signature.asc Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name=signature.asc Content-Description: Message signed with OpenPGP using GPGMail -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- iQEcBAEBAgAGBQJSN98wAAoJEO+gg/nAZuwMSKIIAIF7f2Xcx4pqe0kdwgKt1WzV FCbSGUDJYHYi3GRQd3/+lUShqE4F3LqRecpQg14tzJbGKpOhRHmXecemmMYfQFTt yzzz0AQRJKXJAMq/+3e7M0AsZ/4ZIRNgP3kwK/nxU7lDTye+XB7sCJ4bKer2ogRe O9D+lcndl/yw003OJipI8aCc/SwMvSVYZ6Y8Fns/uwgZiKtjzYOoRkux0LV8+b7T Vzc+8kXyUjcdTfHnVQatrR04493dSQQ7jQ9YaT++4VSxndKd+r4n4Us7tWphnHKZ d0whAxrxLdN6XxXxuoVeQnI8+LosRKfl42wqai8MKtHuZ3F481eILqBJsdyjIgg= =RaEg -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --Apple-Mail=_D914D6D0-0A17-404B-907B-3B17437BB875--