From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 From: Nick Dokos Subject: Re: Re: keys and command name info Date: Mon, 09 Aug 2010 10:23:32 -0400 Message-ID: <15431.1281363812@gamaville.dokosmarshall.org> References: <4C5086C1.9060000@easy-emacs.de> <20100808222636.GF20223@shi.workgroup> <770A61DC-4063-4A72-95F2-21F4E7DE6E77@gmail.com> Reply-To: nicholas.dokos@hp.com Return-path: Received: from [140.186.70.92] (port=59782 helo=eggs.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1OiTGW-0000MN-Kh for emacs-orgmode@gnu.org; Mon, 09 Aug 2010 10:23:49 -0400 Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1OiTGV-00083p-5G for emacs-orgmode@gnu.org; Mon, 09 Aug 2010 10:23:48 -0400 Received: from vms173001pub.verizon.net ([206.46.173.1]:64436) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1OiTGV-00083K-1q for emacs-orgmode@gnu.org; Mon, 09 Aug 2010 10:23:47 -0400 Received: from gamaville.dokosmarshall.org ([unknown] [173.76.32.106]) by vms173001.mailsrvcs.net (Sun Java(tm) System Messaging Server 7u2-7.02 32bit (built Apr 16 2009)) with ESMTPA id <0L6W00A2X2N8B450@vms173001.mailsrvcs.net> for emacs-orgmode@gnu.org; Mon, 09 Aug 2010 09:23:33 -0500 (CDT) In-reply-to: Message from Carsten Dominik of "Mon, 09 Aug 2010 08:43:21 +0200." <770A61DC-4063-4A72-95F2-21F4E7DE6E77@gmail.com> List-Id: "General discussions about Org-mode." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: emacs-orgmode-bounces+geo-emacs-orgmode=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Errors-To: emacs-orgmode-bounces+geo-emacs-orgmode=m.gmane.org@gnu.org To: Carsten Dominik Cc: nicholas.dokos@hp.com, emacs-orgmode Carsten Dominik wrote: > Some of the original arguments, that these names would stick > more easily and that it would make it easy for a hacker to > find the command name for rebinding, these do not fly, I think. > I don't think anyone calls Org commands with M-x, and if a > hacker needs to find a command name, `C-h b' and in particular > `C-h k' are the perfect ways to get to the names. > > I have put a version of the manual as modified by Andreas here: > > http://orgmode.org/org-manual-with-command-names.pdf > > Not all the command names are in there, but quite a few are. > I'd like to hear from more people > > - if they would like to have the names there (i.e. if it would > help them finding a command) > - if the position (first thing in the command description) > is right, or if it would be better to have it > - last thing in the description > - or after the first sentence, this is how the GNUS manual > does it. > > Thanks to Andreas for his work so far, and please, let me > hear more opinions. > I have wished for the command names to be in the manual before but as you say, C-h k works (although sometimes after the C-h k, I find myself saying "Oh, that one...", whereas I could have said that with a couple of keystrokes less if the name were in the manual :) ) As for the position, spot-checking the emacs manual shows the command name at the end of the first sentence in the key description and right after the key sequence in running text. Here's an example of both instances: ,---- | `C-d' | `' | Delete next character (`delete-char'). If your keyboard has a | function key (usually located in the edit keypad), Emacs | binds it to `delete-char' as well. | | `' | `' | Delete previous character (`delete-backward-char'). | | `M-\' | Delete spaces and tabs around point (`delete-horizontal-space'). | | `M-' | Delete spaces and tabs around point, leaving one space | (`just-one-space'). | | `C-x C-o' | Delete blank lines around the current line (`delete-blank-lines'). | | `M-^' | Join two lines by deleting the intervening newline, along with any | indentation following it (`delete-indentation'). | | The most basic delete commands are `C-d' (`delete-char') and | (`delete-backward-char'). `C-d' deletes the character after point, the | ... `---- I would vote for consistency above all. I also think (in contrast to Andreas Burtzlaff) that this helps newbies : I remember finding it very helpful when I first started writing elisp. And I also remember the (momentary) annoyance I felt when I was first reading the Org manual: I was used to the emacs manual conventions and habits die hard! My 2 cents, Nick